Hands in the Blinds, Small Stakes

[istewart]

Reading over the "KQs in the SB" thread, I began thinking about my own play of hands in the SB. If only there was a nice NL chart a la SSHE-style, but no.

What hands do you:

1) COMPLETE with 2-3 limpers?

2) RAISE with 2-3 limpers?

3) COMPLETE with 4+ limpers?

4) RAISE with 4+ limpers?

For either of the blinds, this goes for.

And if the pot has become raised, do you tighten up to the extreme in the blinds?

What hands do you play? Reraise?

[BobboFitos]

Assume this is for full 10 handed. 6 max I play a little differently. (Namely, more aggressive)

[ QUOTE ]
1) COMPLETE with 2-3 limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to catch alot of flack for this, because of the oft-heard "but you dont want to play a draw out of position!!" but... Any connector, suited or offsuit, (not 23o or 34o) any PP (except those I'd raise with) any 2 broadways, suited or offsuit, Ace X suited... Really, the only thing I'm folding in a semi-family pot is face/rag suited and offsuit.

I'll catch flack for this too, but I'll complete with A2o-A5o as well (and A9o) but I fold A6,A7,A8. (Throw it with the trashy hands and face/rags)

[ QUOTE ]
2) RAISE with 2-3 limpers?


[/ QUOTE ]
AA,KK,QQ,AK. Never AQ, strangely, although once there are that many limpers I firmly believe raising both AK and AQ for value purposes have the same (nearly) expected return. Perhaps it's just superstition.

Jacks are tough. Depends on my mood.

[ QUOTE ]
3) COMPLETE with 4+ limpers?


[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't change from 2-3 w/ me. Although pot odds is a great concept that is sometimes implemented correctly in NLH, it's not enough of a difference to play a truly awful hand. A greater question would be if UTG min raised, and the entire table called the min raise, and you're in the BB w/ 72o, should you call? Technically yes, you should, although I dont think a fold in that spot is wrong. (Thoughts?)

[ QUOTE ]

4) RAISE with 4+ limpers?


[/ QUOTE ]

Only difference here is I definately do not raise JJ and I think about not raising with AK, then I do it anyways.

That was for SB (Above) BB it's easy: just check! Raising out of the BB works very similarly to SB, except for a KEY difference which isn't thought of enough on this board: If opponents are really weak fish, then oftentimes a raise from the BB will win the pot then and there. the only problem with doing this move in the SB is BB waking up with a hand, whereas BB you're last to act pf. Personally though I'd only do this with a hand that could hit the flop hard, (IE suited connector) but typically I just check. I dont like raising too much out of the blinds, even if it gives observant opponents in edge in narrowing my hand range pretty easily.

[ QUOTE ]
And if the pot has become raised, do you tighten up to the extreme in the blinds?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes... Calling raises has to be the death of many many many newbies in NLH. Calling is fine for pocket pairs. And AK. If stacks are deep enough, perhaps other hands. Min raises are another story. But mostly, calling raises is bad.

[ QUOTE ]
What hands do you play? Reraise?

[/ QUOTE ]

If my opponent is really good and will laydown everything but AA and KK to a reraise, reraising with those hands are fairly counter productive, eh?

However, given the case, barring a read, (or a read that they suck) I pop back AA and KK in the blinds. Unless the game has tightened down to the point where CO / Button are making steal raises, then it plays much more like 6max.

[sourbeaver]

Don't play in the blinds, ever.


Ever. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[istewart]

Great response, thanks a lot man.

You're the reason for this Lennon. You're a swine.

(Name that movie and you win my respect.) /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sourbeaver]

[ QUOTE ]
Great response, thanks a lot man.

You're the reason for this Lennon. You're a swine.

(Name that movie and you win my respect.) /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a little self-humor, that's all /images/graemlins/wink.gif


Isn't that quote from A Hard Day's Night ?

[istewart]

Bastard!

[Rockatansky]

[ QUOTE ]
Only difference here is I definately do not raise JJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? Is there any reason to think that you're not ahead? Or is playing JJ out of position tricky enough to negate the value of a preflop raise?

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only difference here is I definately do not raise JJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? Is there any reason to think that you're not ahead? Or is playing JJ out of position tricky enough to negate the value of a preflop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is for me. So.

Thing is with a host of limpers...

If theyre the type who limp/fold alot, raising with aces, jacks, or even trash is all technically correct. If they limp/call alot, thats OK, but not as clear cut w/ JJ.

Reason being too many flops in a massive field are tough to play first to act with Jacks. If overcards hit you may be value betting or perhaps bluffing. You dont really know. It's like shooting a gun through fog.

if it's a limped pot you can play for set or overpair, and not get tangled up with a tough guessing game when you dnt need to.

[tbach24]

In BB, I usually will raise with a bunch of junk to narrow down the field but while thinking about this I think that my way of playing from the blinds is definetly -EV. I think that checking with every hand from BB would be smart against a field of overly aggressive players. Just don't play it for top pair. If you hit the flop and hit it hard, since you are either 1st or 2nd to act in a multi-way pot, you can count on some aggression from players. The only problem with this is an overpair. With an overpair I would lead out on the flop and see how the action goes. If you play Aces and flop a set on a drawless board, no one would know and thus perhaps think that their two-pair or even TPGK is good. It may be faulty logic, but next time I play I am going to try it out. Oh and to a raise just think what you would do if you were UTG+1 and UTG had raised...basically. Oh and also, if it's not raised and you have aces against a very loose table (with a bunch of limpers), try min-raising, you won't narrow down the field and you'll build a pot.

SB is another story. I complete with Ax suited, Kx suited, Suited connectors, one-gappers, and two-gappers and small-mid PP's. I raise with QQ and up and AK and up...or at least that's what I should be doing. Fold the rest of the garbage. And if you complete with 88 and the flop comes 752, bet out and fold to raises.

Someone tell me if this is faulty logic, but I think this is a good way of playing.

[TheWorstPlayer]

By playing AA essentially for set value from the blinds, you are turning it into 22. And by not raising AA from the blinds, you are letting other people play their 67s with your AA for free. Make them pay to take a flop against your premium starting hands.

[BobboFitos]

NOO

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and also, if it's not raised and you have aces against a very loose table (with a bunch of limpers), try min-raising, you won't narrow down the field and you'll build a pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

bad bad bad

there are so many (good) discussions about AA right now, here's one quick tidbit you should know:
If you raise 4bb and get 4 callers (we'll discount blinds)
or minraise to 2bb and get 8 callers

WHICH IS BETTER?


The answer: Same size pot, fewer opponents. Dont min raise. If they're loose they'll call an even bigger raise.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Or you can just open push. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif