engagement rings

[LALDAAS]

I love my girl friend dearly. She has been pushing the marriage button alot. I am considering taking the plunge.

So question #1 is how long should a courtship be before it is time. THINK LIKE A WOMAN GUYS.

My reason for delaying for one is not wanting to move from one engagement to other. I started dating this girl about a month after the break up with my ex.One of my concerns is that not only her family(who knows my history) but my own.

We come from rediculous Irish chatolic families.

However I am 100% sure she is the one.

Question #2 how much does one spend on a ring, how big blah blah blah.

Is there some kind of guide lines to follow like say 2 months salary. I dont want to be cheap, I also dont want to drop a nut.

[astroglide]

i'm curious for those out there about 'pricing guarantees'. i've heard that some places will state that any jeweler will buy the ring for at least what you paid for it. difficult to grasp how there's a margin in something that a reseller would take for the same value.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

Jewelery is one of the top 2 or 3 most marked up products there is. That's how there's margin.

[astroglide]

there is absolutely no way they are around the top. look at stuff like fireworks. and your post doesn't answer my question at all.

[sfer]

I've always wondered, is the 2 month thing before or after taxes? The difference is substantial.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I've always wondered, is the 2 month thing before or after taxes? The difference is substantial.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I've always wondered, is the 2 month thing before or after taxes? The difference is substantial.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's just a big scam anyway. I'd get her something nice and never ever tell her what it cost. Why would she even ask?

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

I spent 2 months pre-tax, but I think that's a silly rule. Get what you can afford. Start looking at diamonds and find out where the point is that things get substantially better for spending just a bit more. Know the 4 Cs and decide which one you're going to favor over the others. Size is great, but it'll look like ass if you get a huge rock but it's got [censored] clarity or it's nasty yellow. A lot of times you can't see the difference very well just looking at the one rock, but if you hold it next to one of better quality, the difference is impossible to miss.

I spent a ridiculous amount of money on my wife's ring because I wanted to make sure it was a great symbol of what it represents. Also, my intention was to spend the money on the ring instead of the wedding, as it's what will last forever. To think that I could say "I blew a huge wad on the ring, so let's not spend so much on the wedding" was quite silly of me. It won't happen. Also, I didn't tell her exactly how much it was until after we were married and we were getting it put on the homeowner's insurance, at which point she could easily find out for herself.

[LALDAAS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've always wondered, is the 2 month thing before or after taxes? The difference is substantial.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude not tryin to toot my own horn here but thats alot of cash. Is the standard really 2 months salary? I was askin, It is something I have heard.

[drewjustdrew]

First, you would have to move from where you are currently located! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't like the 2 month salary rule. That seems like a guideline set up by the jewelers. She should be happy with whatever you give her. If not, she is not "the one". When I bought my wife's ring, I got it at a discount retailer. It is my understanding that the stores in the mall greatly inflate their prices. I probably could have gotten a better deal at a wholesaler downtown (Chicago). F*ck "romance is all that counts". This is a serious purchase, and you don't want to start your engagement feeling like you got ripped off.

Best advice: pay close attention to her friends' engagement rings, and at least match theirs in terms of size/quality. She will be using theirs as a reference as well when "grading" you.

[LALDAAS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've always wondered, is the 2 month thing before or after taxes? The difference is substantial.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's just a big scam anyway. I'd get her something nice and never ever tell her what it cost. Why would she even ask?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was a known fact that 90% ofwomen run out and have there rings apraised immediatly

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
question #1 is how long should a courtship be before it is time.

[/ QUOTE ]
uh...ok. You answered this here:

[ QUOTE ]

However I am 100% sure she is the one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Question #2 how much does one spend on a ring, how big blah blah blah.

Is there some kind of guide lines to follow like say 2 months salary. I dont want to be cheap, I also dont want to drop a nut.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take her with you, she'll let you know how much to spend by where she looks. She knows you, knows your salary, knows what she likes. Go with the flow bro.

And congrats. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm curious for those out there about 'pricing guarantees'. i've heard that some places will state that any jeweler will buy the ring for at least what you paid for it. difficult to grasp how there's a margin in something that a reseller would take for the same value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the reason they do this is there's little chance for most people that they're ever going to take the seller up on this offer. I think it's mostly a sales tactic. A lot of people would never bring the ring back for sentimental reasons.

And if there's a divorce, I think the catch is they buy the ring back only if you're upgrading to something else. I don't know that they just let you return it.

But even if they do, it's an item that has virtually no depreciation. If you go to a jeweler right now, could you tell if a diamond has been owned before?

[IndieMatty]

It's before and not enough.

[Freakin]

Couple things

1) Don't buy a ring she'd be embaressed to show to her friends.

2) Avoid huge retail chains. These stores generally have the highest markup.

3) Look for jewelers who produce rings for the retail stores. I can recommend one if you're in the Seattle area, but otherwise just call up jewelers until you find one. I saved about 50% off retail by doing this, and the work is supurb.

4) I dated my girlfriend for almost 4 years before proposing, because I was still in college. If you know that you would be happy with her forever, and you do not have any serious life-changing events coming up, then you can consider marriage. If you would be unable to support both you and her financially, then don't even think about it.

Freakin

[jakethebake]

Ask you Mom. If you're lucky she'll have some really nice family heirloom. You can have it reset, give her something really special....oh yea, and save youself a "nut".

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
Irish chatolic families.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that a combination of Catholic and chaotic? I know all about both, I'm Italian.

Two months salary seems crazy to me to spend on something purely symbolic with no practical value. I guess I'm not big on symbols. Maybe I need to find a woman who would prefer an engagement car to an engagement ring...

[Six_of_One]

2 months' salary is what DeBeers says. You don't have to take their advice. On the other hand, you don't want to come off like a cheap bastard, either. I think the amount you spend relative to your income will depend on your personality. As another poster said, do some research online about diamond characteristics, so you'll have some idea whether they're trying to rip you off or not.

Here's some advice from me: If you are in the habit of buying yourself expensive toys, you'd better not skimp on the ring. And get platinum -- it's only a few hundred more than gold, which is insignificant compared to the cost of the diamond, yet it seems to impress people.

[LALDAAS]

[ QUOTE ]
Take her with you, she'll let you know how much to spend by where she looks. She knows you, knows your salary, knows what she likes. Go with the flow bro.

And congrats. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks this is sound advise however As I said we are both Irish Catholic, I am going to have to ask her fathers blessing before I do anything and I damn well better have the ring with me.
This is daddies little girl.I am scared shitless of her Pa Dukes I am afriad he will kill me.

You should see the look he shoots me when he knows she spent the night with me. Seriously if looks could kill.

I am gonna have to ask her cousins husband what he spent and guess ill have to pony up, match or do better.

[2planka]

How old are you (plural)?

My wife and I dated for 4 years before we got engaged. The engagement was 18 months (mainly so we could bank some $ and not go into debt for the wedding).

I was 28 when we got engaged. I did some research on rings, determined what style she likes (plain old classic cut solitaire), and saved up the cash to buy it. Again, I didn't want to be in debt beacause of the ring purchase.

I did not spend two months' salary on the ring, but it was more money than I ever thought I'd be spending on jewelry. Got her a 3/4 karat certified stone from a jewelry maker in Boston, added the rider to my homeowners insurance, and ate Ramen noodles for a month.

My income is now roughly triple what I was making back then. I asked my wife if she wanted an upgrade - a bigger, better quality stone. She flatly refused. Why would she want to trade in "her" diamond? Funny how differently we think.

[nolanfan34]

OK, more thoughts from someone who has been through this somewhat recently. I guess it has been 4 years now, as my wife and I have been married for 3 years, but its recent enough that I have some tips and suggestions for anyone going through this.

- Shop around, and stay away from the mall. The mall jewelers are the biggest rip offs. They push all kinds of crappy rings and diamonds on you, and will take little to no time to educate you at all about what to look for.

- Try to find sellers who have loose diamonds. I bought my wife's diamond from a regional retailer, who had a large selection of loose stones. The advantage to this is that you can really examine the clarity and color of the stone. Clarity is especially important - your money is better spent choosing clarity grade over size, IMO. One of the tricks the mall retailers use is to hide flaws in the stone behind the prongs of the ring. Stones that are already set in rings are harder to examine with a microscope. Don't settle for just using one of those eye loops either, any reputable jeweler will have a good microscope you can examine the ring under.

- 2 months is a dumb rule. I don't think there's any rule of thumb that anyone should stick to. There's no magic formula. You can get a good stone from $2000-$10000. When I was shopping around, I saw diamonds in the size/grade I was looking for ranging from $3000-$6000 in price. It really comes down to what you can afford, and what SHE will be happy with. Personally, if my wife was the type that demanded a certain size/$$ amount for a ring, I wouldn't have wanted to marry her.

- Have the ring professionally appraised. GIA certification is good and all, but you do pay more for it. If you want that guarantee, go for it. The diamond I bought was not GIA certified, but I had it professionally appraised and certified for insurance purposes. The seller I bought from did their own grading, and it turned out that the appraiser thought it was a better color than the seller graded it. The appraiser received the diamond without any knowledge of the grade given by the seller, so I felt good about the authenticity of what I was being told.

[LALDAAS]

We are both 26 and have been very close friends for nearly umm dunno 20 or so years.

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take her with you, she'll let you know how much to spend by where she looks. She knows you, knows your salary, knows what she likes. Go with the flow bro.

And congrats. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks this is sound advise however As I said we are both Irish Catholic, I am going to have to ask her fathers blessing before I do anything and I damn well better have the ring with me.
This is daddies little girl.I am scared shitless of her Pa Dukes I am afriad he will kill me.

You should see the look he shoots me when he knows she spent the night with me. Seriously if looks could kill.

I am gonna have to ask her cousins husband what he spent and guess ill have to pony up, match or do better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, this does cause some issues then....if you think she'd be ok with it, shop around anyway. It may go against tradition a bit, but if you get her something without her input she may not like it at all.

As far as the soon to be father in law, once you make it legit I bet he calms down. My FIL damn near pissed a circle around my wife when I was dating her. Daddie's little girl and all that.

Tough one man. Whatever you decide, good luck.

[2planka]

Pop the question whenever, but i strongly suggest a long engagement if only to square the finances for the wedding. Pay for as much of it in cash/check that you can, and pay for as much of it yourselves as you can. It's your day. If you pay for it you call the shots.

[wayabvpar]

Do you know what kind of metal she prefers? Some woman hate yellow gold (like my wife). Also, find out what kind of stone cut she prefers (some of them are just hideous, IMHO). Start looking around at other women's rings- what style do you like? Does it match your girlfriend's tastes?

Do some research online and become well versed in the grading of diamonds. Once you know how to compare 2 stones, you can start to shop around for a price. FWIW, I went to EE Robbins (Seattle area), found a setting I liked and a nice stone, then went up the street in Bellevue to International Jewelers. I got nearly an identical stone in a much nicer setting for the same price- there is A LOT of difference in prices.

I got lucky and stumbled onto something really good- I picked everything out myself, and my wife gets compliments constantly on her ring.

[pudley4]

The most important and expensive part of the ring is the diamond (duh /images/graemlins/smile.gif), so you need to make sure it's high-quality.

Your best option is to look around and buy a loose diamond. As has been mentioned before, the jeweler can't hide the flaws in the setting if the stone is loose /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

The quality of the cut is also very important - a good cut makes a huge difference in how much the stone sparkles.

Once you get the stone, I would suggest having them put it in a very simple setting with the idea that you and she come back together to pick out the actual ring that the stone goes in. Many places will do this, and they'll usually let you return the basic ring and apply the purchase price towards the final ring. This way you get a very good stone, plus she gets the setting she wants, plus it can still be a surprise.

PS The markups are insane. We (I) got lucky because her family is very good friends with a family who owns a jewelry wholesaler. We got the ring and stone at their cost. If we would have gotten the same ring/stone at a retailer after both markups, we would have paid at least 4x what we did.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
Once you get the stone, I would suggest having them put it in a very simple setting with the idea that you and she come back together to pick out the actual ring that the stone goes in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll echo that, this is what I did as well, and my wife was very happy that I didn't pick out a setting and that we got to do it together.

[LALDAAS]

Thank you all I got a hellof alot more response then I thought I would. I apperciate all the advice.

First things first Im gonna call mom /images/graemlins/smirk.gif I think she had mentioned something about grandma's rings

I think will do my homework to find out what the 4c's are and go with buying the loose stones first then the setting.

I gonna try and hold off till the spring but Ill let yall know how I make out and if you dont here from me, her dad killed me!

[astroglide]

taking it back to the store is one thing, but i've heard that some will guarantee that OTHER STORES will buy it for full price. that's what doesn't make sense to me.

[LALDAAS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once you get the stone, I would suggest having them put it in a very simple setting with the idea that you and she come back together to pick out the actual ring that the stone goes in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll echo that, this is what I did as well, and my wife was very happy that I didn't pick out a setting and that we got to do it together.

[/ QUOTE ]

HMMMM will do!

[pudley4]

DON'T DO THIS!!! (http://www.jokaroo.com/ecards/funnymovies/proposalgonewrong.html)

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

THAT'S HELL! Hell-arious!

[junkmail3]

[ QUOTE ]
DON'T DO THIS!!! (http://www.jokaroo.com/ecards/funnymovies/proposalgonewrong.html)

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You know this was a setup though. the Washington wizards set it up for half time entertainment, or whatever.

Do what I did. Have your dad give you diamonds from a ring that his grandmother gave him and set them in a new ring. Then your, 'then fiance' will think it's more special, and you just saved $2000 (or two months, whatever you planned on.)

[LALDAAS]

Oh man that is rough!

[astroglide]

everybody i [censored] know gets to use diamonds from their relatives or whatever but me

[Mano]

I've been married for about 2 1/2 years and went through a similar process. I always thought at least one year together before proposing, preferralbly 2. As far as the ring, the 2 months salary is completely arbitrary, and depends on what you make and what your girl will be happy with. Find out how big a rock she will be happy with, and shop around (hint: the jewelery store at the mall tends to bend you over). Weather or not you feel comfortable buying a diamond or engagement ring over the internet, check out some online jewelers like Blue Nile (http://www.bluenile.com/) and Mondera (http://www.mondera.com/) to give you an idea of how much it will cost to get something acceptable. If you have to spend a little more to make her happy, do it - better to pay a little more now than hear about it for the rest of your life. By the same token, I would not blindly adhere to the 2 Months rule - if you make 8k/month I think 16k would be an absurd amount to spend on a ring. By the same token, if you make $1500 a month you may have to pony up more. Good luck.

[LALDAAS]

If I work some over time I can clear bout 5k a month. thats before taxes.

10k for a ring is rediculous

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
If I work some over time I can clear bout 5k a month. thats before taxes.

10k for a ring is rediculous

[/ QUOTE ]
You're right - if you spend about $1k more, the difference is significant.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
-Do what I did. Have your dad give you diamonds from a ring that his grandmother gave him and set them in a new ring. Then your, 'then fiance' will think it's more special, and you just saved $2000 (or two months, whatever you planned on.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea. i think I just said that.

[tek]

Look in the Sunday paper and get a ring from someone who was jilted. If the setting and stone look good, have them go with you to a jeweler and pay him $50 to make sure the c's are correct.

I recommend getting a G or H, SI 1 and at least 1 carat. Anything below those and you'll have trouble selling it in the future. Also, get a round stone. The others (marquis, princess, etc) are harder to sell. Hopefully you'll never have to sell it.

I know people in the jewelry business. If the price tag says $3000, you won't get more than $1000 for it cash. You will get $3000 in trade for a more expensive ring.

[Mano]

If you look on the sites I have links to above, you will see that you can buy a very nice full carat diamond for less than 5K. I think most women would be very happy with that.

[Six_of_One]

[ QUOTE ]
If I work some over time I can clear bout 5k a month. thats before taxes.

10k for a ring is rediculous

[/ QUOTE ]

10k will get you a decent ring, but it's far from ridiculous. You can easily spend more than that on a 1 carat ring.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
taking it back to the store is one thing, but i've heard that some will guarantee that OTHER STORES will buy it for full price. that's what doesn't make sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, that doesn't make sense at all, and I don't know the answer. That's strange.

[J.R.]

Two months salary before taxes, and the girl, if she's smart will insure it, and an appraisal is necessary for that... so don't cheap out (woman have an instinct for this kinda thing, even if your girlfriend doesn't know her friends will surely let her know).

But, you can go less if you haven't been dating that long and propose in a romantic spontaneous way. I've kept my girl waiting for 3 years and counting (even though I know she's the one too) because I have debts and the like to pay off. She always reminds me that the longer she waits, the less romantic and the more formal the thing becomes, the more she expects in the form of ring. She jokes (kinda half heartedly) that for each year I keep her waiting, she expects a high grade karat in return....

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude not tryin to toot my own horn here but thats alot of cash. Is the standard really 2 months salary? I was askin, It is something I have heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

That [censored]'s ridiculous. I've said it before; any woman that gets uppity about precisely how much you spend on the engagement ring is not one you want to be with forever.

I spent less than 1/2 a month's salary, and got something modest, but classy.

My girl would have s[/i]hit a brick if I had spent more than that.

She does want me to spend my entire poker bankroll on Pottery Barn stuff, though.

[Leo99]

Get 1 carat minimum. That seems to be the minimum size they'll accept. Get a platinum setting unless she's said she wants the yellow gold. Ask her if she like baguettes (no, not little French breads). Platinum is "in" right now. Get a quality stone. Not yellow or with visible inclusions. Don't shop at the mall. Shop at the little jewelry stores in the strip centers. Make sure they have a scope for you too look at the stones. Walk out if they only have the little jeweler's loop. You should be able to find something real nice between $7000-10000. The insurance through Jewelers Mutual costs the same as going through homeowners and it allows you to cover the policy costs instead of her, and keeps her from knowing how much the ring appraised for. My wife's ring cost $7000 and the apraisal was $9000. They can appraise it more to make you feel like you got a great deal, but then you'll pay more insurance.

Also, check out Bluenile.com

The price guarantee is the jewelry will appraise for double what you paid. Not, that someone will actually pay you double. Go to one of those "We buy diamonds and gold" places and you'll see that you can sell your $7000 ring for $3000.

And make sure you do something fancy and romantic when you propose.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
She jokes (kinda half heartedly) that for each year I keep her waiting, she expects a high grade karat in return....

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] man, go into hock and get the ring.

Banks charge a lot less interest than she does.