Routine play on his weak bet?

[nickey009]

I hadn't seen this guy get out of line and this flop just didn't seem like it hit him. If he re-raises or calls I'm pretty much done with it but it seems like a missed AK-AJ doesn't it?

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($42.97)
SB ($45)
BB ($60.25)
UTG ($36.2)
UTG+1 ($354.96)
MP1 ($44.75)
MP2 ($47)
MP3 ($150.69)
CO ($50.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $3</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $3, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $3, CO folds, Hero calls $3, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: ($13.50) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $3</font>, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $26.50

[amoeba]

I think this is a great play and you realize the power of position.

Still, normally even with position, I don't like calling preflop raises with AJ.

[Wayfare]

Flop is routine, fold preflop.

[nickey009]

Is this a fold pre-flop because I'm most likely dominated when I catch my Ace and it'll cost me some bucks? Even in position this is a fold?

[amoeba]

yes. you don't feel good enough about your kicker when you pair the ace and while you feel better if the flop comes J high, you have to worry about every pocket pair from AA to JJ.

I would rather make the call preflop with mid pocket pairs/ suited connectors and then make the same move on the flop.

Because with those hands, the times you do hit, you aren't afraid of TPTK, and the times that you don't hit, you can use your position to your advantage.

With AJ, you are almost hoping you don't hit and villain doesn't hit either.

[nickey009]

When the flop came down the pot was 12 bucks...if he bets 6 or 9 at it do I make the same play?

[amoeba]

then its read based. Thats part of the reason I don't like party short stacks because these type of plays aren't as useful since somebody with AK just might be crazy enough to reraise you all in, forcing you to fold.

strangely enough, I am more afraid of the $3 underbet than the $6 or $9 bet. Maybe because I sometimes think my villains play like I do.

I have a feeling though that villain didn't even have AK here. I think it might even be KQ.

[Tilt]

reversing roles for a minute - if you have AK under the gun do you even raise knowing you'll get played this way?

AK in EP is so hard to play...I was starting to limp because I was spewing chips defending it post flop.

When I am raised and I miss the flop on a board like this lately I have been c/r the flop, sometimes all-in depending on the players. I suspect I have been taking down enough pots at 50NL with that move to pay for the times I crash into the goods, but I haven't really studied the data yet.

Thoughts?

[amoeba]

Yes, I've started check raising the flop at times with AK when I miss rather than betting out and folding to a raise.

Other benefit of the check raise is that sometimes they might just check behind you.

But yes, AK in EP has given me some difficulties.

But really now that I think about it, position doesn't matter too much.lets say you are on the button. you raise preflop, get a caller.

Often when the flop comes all unders. he bets out. are you really going to raise with AK here?

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]

But really now that I think about it, position doesn't matter too much.lets say you are on the button. you raise preflop, get a caller.

Often when the flop comes all unders. he bets out. are you really going to raise with AK here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only about 10-25% of the time, depending on the player I am up against.

But thats the point - AJo isnt usually going to bet out from EP, but he will raise you in LP. You are far more likely to fold the best hand from EP than LP. I am uncomfortable doing that in a raised pot...so I have been limping. But thats not the solution, either, so I think the c/r is best under most conditions.

[amoeba]

I agree with you.

What about a stop and go?

call the flop bet, lead the turn?

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with you.

What about a stop and go?

call the flop bet, lead the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what that represents. Trips - which means I raised a small PP from EP preflop? I hit my card when the turn is a deuce? And if he was semi-bluffing you just let him have a card.

Im more comfortable representing AA/KK with the c/r. Have you tried the stop n go with success?

[amoeba]

I've done it on occasion and had people fold. I've also had times when they raised me on the turn and I had to fold.

I am more likely to do it on a more drawless flop because of the reasons you've listed. Although more and more, I'm beginning to think that people put way too much effort in to protecting their TPTK hands when there is a 2 flush flop and its HU.

Most of the time, they don't have that draw.