Pre flop question

[Laughingboy]

I had a big argument with a friend over this one. Say you have 77 in middle position pre-flop. It's level 3 or 4 NL. It's folded to you. Assuming no read on the players to your left, what's the best default action? Call? Fold? Raise?

Thanks for your opinions.

[ChrisV]

Calling is terrible. Raising and folding are both OK. It depends on your stack. With a mid-size stack, about 8-13BB or so, I usually prefer to fold. If short or deep stacked I prefer to raise.

[robertsonjohn]

I know we supposedly have no reads on players, but presumably we have an idea whether the table as a whole is the passive type that permits a fair amount of limping, or one that tends to have a decent amount of PF raising. At a table that limps, I don't see what's wrong with a mid-size stack limping in and trying to make a set. If someone after us raises for a decent amount, we can fold without investing much. Obviously, if you make a habit of this people will start aggressively raising your limps, but if you do it every one in a while, I don't see the harm. What's wrong with this tactic?

[wiggs73]

I actually call here and hope to see a cheap flop. If I get played back at before the flop, I let it go.

I'm basically hoping to flop a set and double up or push on a non-threatening flop - 269 rainbow for example - and win the blinds.

[adanthar]

At level 3, with 800-900 or more and at a decently passive table, I limp; less and I fold. At level 4 with the same chips, I raise but folding's OK, too.

[Laughingboy]

I should add that I had the biggest stack at the table at the time -- 2500 chips or so.

[ChrisV]

The problem is that it's a gift to people behind you with marginal holdings like KQ, AJ, AT. These hands can now raise and knock you out, whereas if you had raised they would be unable to call (or if they do call it's good as you know they don't have a reraising hand and they only flop a pair 30% of the time). Also, if nobody raises you are giving the blind a free play to try and outflop you with hands like J3, K8 etc which they would have to fold to a raise.

Against these drawbacks, there are only two things to recommend a call: (1) You lose 100 less if raised - so what? Reraising hands don't crop up all that often. (2) You can flop a set and try to make a big score. The problem with this idea is that people generally don't limp hands against which you will make a big score. At level 1 and 2 people limp KQ, AJ and even AQ and AK sometimes, so you have the chance to get value for your set. At level 3, when unraised preflop, you're unlikely to get anyone allin.

[wiggs73]

Excellent points you make. I concede defeat. Raising looks to be the better option here.

[Laughingboy]

Thanks, Chris. Finally an analysis that is thorough and makes sense. I also concede defeat.