Bet until someone gives you a reason not to....Right? KK Lots of Paint [Archive]

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IndieMatty

01-18-2005, 08:54 PM

The All in player sucks but just in case I'm trying to build a side pot. Thoughts?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (24 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (15.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 folds, SB calls.

River: (18.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

oscark

01-18-2005, 09:17 PM

Check the river and possibly induce a bluff.

Mackas

01-20-2005, 08:47 AM

This is interesting for me because I think I normally go too far with KK (to the river often) when an A hits generally so I get what you're saying about bet until someone gives you reason not to.

That said I would have thought betting this flop with 5 others in the pot was debateable but maybe worth it if you think people might fold a bad ace to your bet and strength shown preflop (additionally you have odds to call to your gutshot anyway so why not bet it if you're going to call).

As far as reasons not to bet go I would have thought 5 people taking a flop of AJT with you and four callers of your flop bet would IMHO definitely be enough reason not to bet again (it even seems like someone might have raised you on the flop though not sure - there's an error in there somewhere as you seem to bet, everyone calls and you call?).

I just don't think circumstances get much worse for KK, lot of callers, awful flop,you're getting the odds to call or bet to your gutshot on the flop but after that the turn is bad and the river even worse. If ever there was a time to lay it down on the turn I would have thought this was it - the board is paired, you may be facing a house already, your gutshot is weak,there was a flush draw on the flop so Qs is probably no good. You're probably chasing a twenty to one shot to fill.

If you do go beyond the turn and still want to show it down at least check call the river to allow someone to bluff at you. I can't see anyone calling a river bet that isn't beating your KK on that board.

Bill C

01-20-2005, 09:44 AM

I might have checked it through on the flop, and if nobody bet, you could be pretty sure nobody has an Ace. But the 2 flush and 3 straight cards on the flop are a major worry still. So you might then bet out on the turn, but if raised, drop 'em. If not raised you might be able to ck-call the river after the Ace comes.

bill

TStoneMBD

01-20-2005, 12:44 PM

i dont like the river bet.

DcifrThs

01-20-2005, 02:28 PM

right...to a point...

on the flop and turn i agree i think betting "until shown otherwise" is best so long as there are draws that will pay to go on as well as possible worse hands (although here the latter catagory is quite slim other than under pairs to your kings or a ten with a spade draw or naked ten).

but on the river...why did you bet again? i like a check call here and you can fold if its bet and raised. now a ten cannot call without a king kicker for a split but you have 2 kings...

checking could possibly induce a bluff as well but i dont see the value in betting here...worse wont call often enough (all underpairs now cant beat the board)

-Barron