calling an all in on the turn with ace high

[Sponger15SB]

A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif in the SB.

1 limper who has $18 left calls, everyone folds, I raise to $4, he calls.

Flop is T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I check (*groan* I know, I know), he checks.

Turn is a 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check, he goes all in for like $14, I call /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[sfwusc]

Why did you call it?

[Sponger15SB]

short short stacks usually go all in when checked to heads up with position with pretty much anything.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
short short stacks usually go all in when checked to heads up with position with pretty much anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea including a pair of deuces.

[Sponger15SB]

hey i've got outs....

seriously though, nobody has ever done this with say...AA, and then see them push with complete garbage just because they don't have any money left.

[amoeba]

you got 6 outs on the turn to a TPTK hand.

I've seen it when I hold AA but you don't hold AA.

[TheWorstPlayer]

For what's it worth, I like the call. A good player would be more likely to call your raise with, say, suited connectors (which most likely hit something here) or a pocket pair (which definitely have at least a pair here) but bad players quite frequently call with AQ/AJ so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see you ahead here. And, as you pointed out, you have outs (unless he has a set, in which case I will laugh).

[Sponger15SB]

I really wanted to fold this, but I was just trying out a semi experiment of sorts to see if players would do this with crap or an awsome hand, so if I called and even if I was horribly wrong, at least felt I would have learned something.

I called and he had A8. King hit the turn and he was drawing dead.

[BradleyT]

Thought turn was a 4?

[TheWorstPlayer]

I thought he pushed on the turn. But in any case, I'm glad to see that we are geniuses. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TrailofTears]

K came on the turn? I thought the turn was a ragged four. Did you call the all-in on the flop or the turn? That is a big difference, IMO.

- ToT

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Thought turn was a 4?

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry king was the river. so he was already dead.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you call the all-in on the flop or the turn? That is a big difference, IMO.


[/ QUOTE ]

turn.

[TrailofTears]

Well, to me I don't mind if the call is on the flop, but I don't make that call on the turn. I think too many times I will see them bet with JT when they catch the ten. Again, I might call the flop (player dependent) but I don't call the turn.

- ToT

[Tilt]

Why is it that whenever I make a call like this my opponent shows down trips?

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
(unless he has a set, in which case I will laugh)

[/ QUOTE ]
So that I can laugh?

[jimdmcevoy]

Here's a move I think you should consider every now and again preflop. If the big blind is also shortstacked (<$40), put them both all in.

After all, in a ten handed game, if you have AK the odds of anyone else having AA or KK are about 20 to 1, and even if they do AK sometimes beats AA or KK.

Seeing as you are risking $20 (up to $40 if BB has that much) to steal $2, this becomes a positive EV play.

It may or may not maximize your EV, but if anyone's paying attention you can create an interesting table image.

[Sponger15SB]

hmmmmmm, I don't think I like this....AK is a dog to PP's that could easily call me.

Anyone care to add to this?

[jimdmcevoy]

Yah it's a dog to QQ JJ TT, I doubt anyone will call with less, but the fact that AK beats KK about 1 out of 3 times more than compensates for this. In fact, even if they called you with hands all the way down to 22 I think it would be just about balanced by the fact that AK can beat KK and AA. And if your opponents are crazy, they might call you with a non-pair hand (Iv'e had this happen to me many times)

[TheWorstPlayer]

If it comes to calling an all-in with AK, I don't hate it because it is unlikely that you are dominated and the dead money in the pot usually covers for the odds gap against a PP, so it is +EV to call. If, however, you have the choice of seeing a cheap flop, that is almost always more +EV in my opinion. After all, are you really afraid of QQ check/folding on the flop just because an A or K hits? Give me a break.

[Lawrence Ng]

Sponger,

Your mistake here is not betting the turn. If you bet the turn for about half the pot and he calls your turn bet, then you know you are finished if you don't hit the Ace or King. If he raises, you are finished with your hand.

Check-ing and then attempting to call the turn bet by your opponent is brutal here and should only be done if you read your opponent for a medium hand (maybe top pair, 2nd pair) and you want to trap him for more money with your overpair. IE if you had AA or KK or QQ here in your hand, this is how I would have played it out.

Fold on the turn. You cannot call.

Lawrence

[TheWorstPlayer]

What if he reads the villain for a complete monkey who most likely has a worse A high? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[boondockst]

If that's the case i want his screenname and site (man i'd kill to be showndown A8o whenever i can't put someone on a hand)

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

just put him all in on the flop.

[MarkL444]

id say you played this postflop about as bad as possible

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
What if he reads the villain for a complete monkey who most likely has a worse A high?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what the turn bet is for. To see if Monkey has Ace high. Checking is brutal here with AK as it signifies AK to a weaker player allowing the villain to make his all-in move.

Lawrence

[TheWorstPlayer]

First of all, I completely agree that Sponger played this terribly. But, considering how horrible this opponent was, he would have folded to a turn bet, but he was willing to bluff on the turn. And Sponger knew that and was willing to call him. So there is no question Sponger took the optimal line, given this opponent AND his holding. Of course, Sponger didn't KNOW his opponent's holding. But he has enough experience with this type of player that I think he could be REASONABLY certain of his type of holding. Maybe he had hit mid-pair or bottom pair, but it is a pretty good bet that this guy had a weak ace and it is more likely that he missed mid and bottom pair than that he hit them.