Battle for the blinds - 5/10 6-max

[JrJordan]

Just sat down but stats on the villain show pretty darn loose passive. How's my line here barring any real read from playing with him?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

I imagine his raise on the flop could be with any pair, in which case I am still ahead a little more than half the time. If I reraise he'll fold most hands I'm beating, and call down with a lot of hands that beat me, typical win a small pot or lose a big. Also, against a loose passive like this, is my J9 open raise good?

[aflaba]

I think it's good. And also your line of thinking is good.

[srw5n]

I would probably check through at the river, but otherwise I think your hand played itself. I lean to checking through on the river, because I don't think he lays down a hand that beats you and the only hands I can see him calling your river bet with that are worse than your hand are 88 or AK.

But I'm too passive on the river so take it with a grain of salt - it's a hole in my game (though I also like to gather information, which I would not get if he folds).

[JrJordan]

You might be a bit mixed up. I'm the hero in this case, not the BB. I check/called both the turn and river.

[srw5n]

oops, you're right jordan. I think the hand played itself then. I see nothing wrong with your play.

[Lost Wages]

If you think that you are ahead on the flop often enough to showdown then you should bet the river as he is likely to check through with a lot of hands that you beat. If you check-call then you pay off more with the worse hand than you collect with the better hand. Of course, that assumes that you can safley fold to a raise which I think is the case for this hand.

Lost Wages

[JrJordan]

That line certainly seems reasonable. You said that's what you'd do IF you think your hand has showdown value. Facing a raise from what seems to be a loose-passive, but on a ragged board, do I have showdown value here or should I check/fold the turn? In the past this has been a very typical call down scenario for me, though I'm trying to figure out if I'm spewing chips in doing so.

Also, comments on the J9 PF? I don't like open limping much. But against a BB who I know will call 95% of the time, is raising here a good thing?

[djoyce003]

I lean towards not raising a loose passive preflop with a marginal hand because he is not going to fold it. If you have fold equity, then the blind steal raise is ok, but if you have virtually no fold equity, i prefer to limp and see if I hit.

[BugsBunny]

[ QUOTE ]
But against a BB who I know will call 95% of the time, is raising here a good thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a player like that I'll just complete a much greater percentage of the time than I would otherwise. This type of hand falls in that category.

It also depends on how he plays postflop though. In some they'll laydown to a flop bet if you raised preflop, but not if you just completed etc.

As a general rule of thumb though I would tend to complete rather than raise in a situation like this. I'll just complete against any player at times, and I'll raise against players like this at times. The ratio's change though, and against reasonable players I just complete much less often. But in both cases I want to keep them (and the rest of the table) guessing and use the opposite of my normal play against them as a curve ball.

[Lost Wages]

You said that's what you'd do IF you think your hand has showdown value.

Yes, I chose my words carefully to dodge the real question /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Against a passive player I think that you are in trouble when he raises the flop. He likely either has you beaten or has a strong draw. When he passes on the free card I think that you can fold.

Also, comments on the J9 PF? I don't like open limping much. But against a BB who I know will call 95% of the time, is raising here a good thing?

I know it feels fishy to open limp but against this player it's an option. When you open limp you can use the "delayed steal" where you simply bet any flop. Against some players (want to see the flop but can let go if they miss) it can be more effective than the straight steal. Folding some of your weaker hands is fine as well. If he remembers that you folded to him in this situation before then it makes your steals more effective than if he just thinks you are auto-stealing.

Lost Wages

[joseki]

What do you guys think about calling the flop raise and then leading the turn? Many players will raise a flush draw or even an isolated Ah (especially w/ another overcard). If you lead and he raises the turn I think a fold is safe. Players on the come often eschew the free card in an attempt to fold hands like yours on the turn, so I don't think it's safe to fold for one bet there.

I want to put him in the postion of calling with a marginal hand, as I hate being put in that spot myself. Your pair is vulnerable and it feels wimpy to just call down. I'd like to 3-bet the flop, but I don't think you gain as much info if he caps there as you do from a turn raise.

Also, you said he had passive stats, but here it's HU and I'm not sure aggregate stats are that good at predicting action in these situations. Anyone disagree?

[JrJordan]

I actually really like the idea of a stop n go. Against a passive player, I could very well be betting with a worse hand. However, I'd probably lose the same amount as calling down. Curious though, what's your line when he just calls the turn and a rag hits the river? I think the best line would be to check/call the river. If he misses his draw, he;ll either check through or make a stab. A higher 9 might check it through because of your turn bet too. You'd probably lose a bet when a 7 or lower 9 checks through, but I think it's better than betting while a loser or facing a river raise.