Very basic stud questions (buy-in amounts, etc.)

[otnemem]

I am fairly new to stud. I know a decent amount about general play, but probably overplay sub-par hands. Anyway, I have a few basic questions...

What would be a good buy-in for a 5 to 10 spread limit game? I know in Hold 'Em I buy about 30x BB. Would you be inclined to buy-in for more in a stud game, based on the extra street? Or do you think $300 is an adequate buy in for a 5 to 10 spread limit?

My other question is about bet size. I like a set bet limit, because I don't have to decide what to bet. How do you decide how much to bet in a spread limit game? I have a habit of automatically betting the maximum on every street, unless I think I have a hand that would be very difficult to draw out on (a made boat, or a big flush). So is this an acceptable practice, or are there better guidelines to knowing how much to bet and when?

[Runner Runner]

I think $300 is an adequate buyin, but if you get below $150 you should definitely reload, (never go allin). As far as betting is concerned, you usually want to bet enough to protect your hand, but you also want your opponents making mistakes. If you can price your opponents into chasing when they shouldn't, then you should bet less then the max, if they would fold to a max bet. If they will call no matter what, then max bet for sure, also, when the pot gets big you definitely want to max bet.

Another thing about spread limit betting is that if your opponents will let you get away with betting less then the max when you are on draws, then do so. So much of this is dependent on the game you are playing in, so make sure you pay attention to your opponents and adjust your game accordingly in order to maximize your wins.

[otnemem]

I like the small bet/draw idea. I hadn't even thought about that. I always figured stud to be more of a check and call game on draws. The one solid piece of information I has is to bet flush draws big, because you want less people in when you're chasing a flush in stud. Is that correct? I thought I read that in Sklansky.

[7stud]

What would be a good buy-in for a 5 to 10 spread limit game? I know in Hold 'Em I buy about 30x BB.

A spread limit $5-$10 game would be one where you could bet any amount between $5 and $10. Usually, the betting has a fixed structure: you can only bet or raise one amount. I would assume the $5-$10 game you are considering has a fixed betting structure. I always buy in for 30x the minimum bet--I thought I read that somewhere in a 2+2 book(maybe in one of the Essays books?)

The one solid piece of information I has is to bet flush draws big, because you want less people in when you're chasing a flush in stud.

So, with longshots, you would rather you have less people in the hand, so that your eventual payoff will be less? Why do you think that would be different in stud than holdem?

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
What would be a good buy-in for a 5 to 10 spread limit game? I know in Hold 'Em I buy about 30x BB.

A spread limit $5-$10 game would be one where you could bet any amount between $5 and $10. Usually, the betting has a fixed structure: you can only bet or raise one amount. I would assume the $5-$10 game you are considering has a fixed betting structure. I always buy in for 30x the minimum bet--I thought I read that somewhere in a 2+2 book(maybe in one of the Essays books?)

The one solid piece of information I has is to bet flush draws big, because you want less people in when you're chasing a flush in stud.

So, with longshots, you would rather you have less people in the hand, so that your eventual payoff will be less? Why do you think that would be different in stud than holdem?

[/ QUOTE ]

they have 5-10 spread limit in Ac, which I believe is what he is referring to.
I usually buy in for 100 in a 1-5 spread so in theory 200 would be enough. I have a feeling though that the game will be a little more agressive. in the 1-5 there is rarely an initial bet more than $3 on the first 2 streets, but in the 5-10 i would guess there is a little more raising going on so I would probably feel more comfortable buying in for more

[Nick_Foxx]

i have not played $5-$10 but i have played $2-$10 where the usual buy-in is around $200-$250

typically i bet the max whenever possible (including 4th st rule if i pair my doorcard) except for possibly 3rd st if i think a max raise will scare everyone out except the people who have holdings better than you

mike

[otnemem]

[ QUOTE ]
So, with longshots, you would rather you have less people in the hand, so that your eventual payoff will be less? Why do you think that would be different in stud than holdem?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it's totally different than in hold 'em. In hold 'em, how many cards are in play doesn't make a difference in your odds of catching a card that you need. In a full ring of hold 'em, you're going to get the same odds every time. When six people as opposed to three are getting one card each on every street, your odds of connecting are altered.

[defence18]

I have found that in a live stud game, most of the players are senior citizens. Thus, they are much tighter, and I find they usually give up their hand a little easier. In the $1-3 spread limit at the Taj, I bought in for $60 and had no problems. I found that there were much fewer players in each pot than in hold 'em. One guy, whenever he had a premium pair, would raise the max, and everyone would fold. He seemed content with taking the few dollars he scooped. So I find that the betting is more straightforward. When you have a hand, bet to punish your opponents, but not so much that they won't call. And as previously said, bet meager amounts with your draws. Good luck.

[7stud]

In hold 'em, how many cards are in play doesn't make a difference in your odds of catching a card that you need.

As far as I can determine, the more cards of your suit that you see on the board, the less the chance you have of drawing a flush. Why is that different in HE than in seven stud?

It seems to me that in either game, if you are drawing to a long shot, you need more people in the hand to get the proper odds for continuing.

[otnemem]

For some reason, nobody is really understanding what I mean here. Let's pretend we have two games: one full, ten-seated HE ring, and one full, eight-seated stud ring. In the HE ring, There are going to be twenty cards dealt before the flop, three on the flop, one on the turn, and one on the river. For every hand that goes to showdown, this will happen. There is no variance, and therefore no difference in your odds of catching a card. Therefore raising people out of a pot on a draw is a bad decision, unless it's heads up and you think you'll get your opponent to fold. In stud on the other hand, your odds of catching a card change depending on how many people are in a hand (how many people are drawing more cards.) I believe (and again, I can't remember for certain, but I'll reference it tonight), that your odds of drawing to a flush are increased with less people drawing from the deck, and therefore less people drawing to your outs.

Make sense?

[Sluss]

But you can see more of your outs. Giving you more information. So if you need a diamond and you only see two out there is a good shot of you getting one. I think...I'm really still a newbie at this advanced stuff. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe (and again, I can't remember for certain, but I'll reference it tonight), that your odds of drawing to a flush are increased with less people drawing from the deck, and therefore less people drawing to your outs.

Make sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not yet, no. It seems like the more people in the hand, the more info you have about the odds of drawing your suit from the stub. Is this any flush, or just a nut flush? I can see raising with the third or fourth-best flush to attempt to drive out higher, non-nut draws.

This reminds me of being cussed out by a friend of mine while playing blackjack on our first-ever trip to the local indian casino at the age of 18. He said since I was seated directly to the right of the dealer (3rd base he called it) I should stand on 11 with the dealer showing low, since taking a card might take away the dealer's bust card.

Slim

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


This reminds me of being cussed out by a friend of mine while playing blackjack on our first-ever trip to the local indian casino at the age of 18. He said since I was seated directly to the right of the dealer (3rd base he called it) I should stand on 11 with the dealer showing low, since taking a card might take away the dealer's bust card.

Slim

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

[Andy B]

Your odds in stud do not change because of the number of people in the hand. They change because of the cards that have shown. If you're drawing to a flush and a lot of your cards have shown, the chance of making your hand goes down. If a lot of cards have shown, but your cards are still live, your chance goes up. It doesn't matter whether you're up against one player or six.

The reason you usually want people in when you have a draw is so that they'll pay you off if you make your hand.

[gsyme]

That's superstition. Your odds won't change whether you're drawing the 1st card or the 50th card in the deck--it's still a random card. People aren't "stealing your outs" by staying in the hand.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason you usually want people in when you have a draw is so that they'll pay you off if you make your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before I add to this thread I must admit I am a Stud newbie, but just last night I was reading about this in Super System.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you have mostly high cards, and you have a flush draw, it is often better to raise to slim the field (assuming a high pair might win the hand if the Hero pairs)? With a smaller field the Hero has a better chance of winning if the flush draw misses.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Andy B]

Yes, with high cards, knocking people out gives you extra chances to win. Usually at lower limits, you'll get enough callers that you basically need to make the flush to win. You also make money by putting money in with a flush draw because you have a forty-something percent chance to make a hand that is very likely to hold up in a multi-way pot.