a reaonable dutch boyd sponsorship opportuntiy (no jokes)

[TStoneMBD]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45208&item=5950604 550&rd=1

hes asking for 2500, or 25% of the buyin. in turn he will pay the sponsor 25% of his winnings. at least hes making a fair offer this time. if he could be trusted, someone with enough money to bankroll him could consider this a more than reasonable investment.

[TheJackal]

If someone is bankrolling Scott Fischman, that would be a good investment. I'm not so sure about Dutch Boyd. Here are his lifetime earnings as a pro, and he hasn't cashed since June 04. I'm not saying he sucks, I'm just saying it might not be the best investment for one tournament.
Dutch Earnings (http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=15967)

[ttleistdci]

[ QUOTE ]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45208&item=5950604 550&rd=1

hes asking for 2500, or 25% of the buyin. in turn he will pay the sponsor 25% of his winnings. at least hes making a fair offer this time. if he could be trusted, someone with enough money to bankroll him could consider this a more than reasonable investment.

[/ QUOTE ]

He also has 5 or 6 1% ones...about $100 each. As long as he cashes, you get your money back, plus a little tutoring session from Dutch.

Any thoughts on this one? I'll have to look into it a little more (how many are playing, how many cash, what he's done lately), but for $100 it might not be a terrible investment.

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
but for $100 it might not be a terrible investment.

[/ QUOTE ]

The amount you invest doesn't impact how terrible of an investment it is. Flushing $100 down the toilet has the same terrible EV (per dollar "invested") that flushing $2500 down the toilet does.

[BarronVangorToth]

I'm still missing the reason why he is whoring off percentages of his action in the first place... Hasn't he done well enough to pay for these events?

Can you imagine this scenario being in place for other top pro's that ESPN talks about constantly?

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)

[GuruCane]

I did a quick search and couldn't find where the arrangements between backers and players was discussed. I recall that many were impressed with Greg's living up to his obligations to his backers after his main event win even though people seemed to think that he could have avoided paying them off.

My question is this: Do backers and players actually have written agreements so that there is some remedy if either gets shafted by the other party? At common law, contracts for wagers were unenforceable since gambling was illegal. But here we have a situation where the tournament is legal, so I would think that people would insist on getting something on paper. Anyone know how the arrangements work (pinky shake, wink and a smile or a signed piece of paper)?

This may be an opportunity for Zaxx to give an opinion that may be of some import.

[duker41]

I'd imagine that there is a desire to keep agreements with backers since the world of poker players is fairly small and once you get a rep (fairly or unfairly) for not paying debts, it would become harder to get future loans from people who have to consider the fact you may not pay up at all, let alone win to pay them back in the first place.

[FishBurger]

RGP post from former crew member (http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=1105774821%24391681%40recpok er.com)

[TStoneMBD]

i have a feeling that boyd may not be too likely to pay back all his backer's fair share.

barron: you ask why cant he afford to bank himself? this is a dumb question. firstly, according to sound bankroll advice, Boyd would need a minimum of 50x 10,000 = 5million$ to pay for himself. aside from that, if he has used a bankroll system in the past which i believe he has, then he has received as low as 10% and as high as 30% of his cashings as 90% of the cashings went to the roller. why do you think tournament pros are always broke but have the fame and that cash game players are always wealthy but are unknown? if boyd had a 10/90 agreement with his backer which is not uncommon, then out of his 180k in cashing he took home a nice check of 18k.

[TStoneMBD]

dont trust your money with boyd over an exchange on the internet. if you actually know him in person then you might be able to trust him, but his background is far more than shady. boyd is a known crook. aside from that, hes probably projected -EV on the WSOP as i dont think the poker community at large really considers this guy as talented. his results are probably more luck-based than anything. if you can get him to wear a logo on his shirt for your poker company, then this may be worth the money to back him as hes bound to get television exposure at this years WSOP.

[snowlarbear]

would this count as (taxable)gambling earnings, though you yourself didn't actually win the money?

[TStoneMBD]

dont get me wrong, im not advising anyone to sponsor dutch boyd, and im not advertising for him. noone these forums should have the bankroll to sponsor him. i dont know how taxes work for a bankroller. i just thought this auction was interesting because dutch has finally offered a rolling deal that is reasonable for a potential bankroller who believes that boyd is the favorite to win money.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
would this count as (taxable)gambling earnings, though you yourself didn't actually win the money?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd think of this as taxable investment earnings, similar to a stock market purchase. Are there big differences in the 2 when it comes to reporting?

[GuruCane]

Really want to get revenge on ol' Dutch? Back him and await results. When he fails miserably, sue him for violation of the federal securities laws. You are buying an interest in him--he should be giving you truthful information. Tournament results posted on a website don't hack it. You would get your $ back.

Just a thought for all of the folks that hate him so.

[bogey]

[ QUOTE ]
i have a feeling that boyd may not be too likely to pay back all his backer's fair share.

barron: you ask why cant he afford to bank himself? this is a dumb question. firstly, according to sound bankroll advice, Boyd would need a minimum of 50x 10,000 = 5million$ to pay for himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm, no

[Masquerade]

Apart from the extreme unlikelihood of him actually paying up there's nothing to stop him selling dozens of 25%'s Producers style and guaranteeing he doesnt cash.

[TStoneMBD]

500k*

so i was off by a zero. no big deal.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
500k*

so i was off by a zero. no big deal.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I'll trade you 5k worth of Party Poker $$$ for 50k on Pokerstars..... /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Army Eye]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still missing the reason why he is whoring off percentages of his action in the first place... Hasn't he done well enough to pay for these events?

Can you imagine this scenario being in place for other top pro's that ESPN talks about constantly?


[/ QUOTE ]I sure can - a lot of the famous pros are backed!!

Getting backing doesn't = broke. Just means they don't mind reducing their variance.