Problems playing AA hands in Omaha High Low

[Ms 45]

I can't quite seem to figure out how to play pocket aces in Omaha. A hand like A /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif looks good to me in the beginning, but very rarely do flops seem to help that sort of hand. When they do, there's still no guarantee that my hand will be good... and when they don't I usually just end up waiting to muck my hand as soon as possible.

I've gotten to the point that I'm mucking hands like the one above before the flop if the pot isn't multiway or I can't open for a raise in late position. I don't know if I'm making a mistake by doing this, but I'm tired of ending up in situations where I have an overpair and a backdoor flush draw when at least half the pot is probably going to someone else.

Thanks for your help.

[BlueBear]

Although it is strangely counter intuitive, folding weak aces such as yours is OK, for example, in early position.

[Buzz]

MS45 - I think it depends on your opponents and on your position.

With AA8Ts, you'll catch an ace on the flop about one time in eight and you get two or three hearts also about one time in eight. After subtracting for the overlap, and adding in some flops that fit with the eight and/or ten, I think you like about one flop in four.

So if you play the hand, you have to expect to not like three out of four flops enought to continue.

For me this is a hand with which to see the flop as cheaply as possible in a loose ring game.

In a tournament it would be an altogether different story. I'd probably either fold or come in with a raise, hoping to get one-on-one with a blind. It's a fine one-on-one hand, I suspect. (But I haven't checked it with a simulation).

Buzz

[johnnybeef]

Buzz makes a great point ms, remember that the reason aa23 double suited is a great hand is not because it has the best hi and low hands preflop, rather it is because it has 5 very powerful draws (2 nut flush draws, 1 nut full house draw, 1 wheel draw, 1 nut low draw). when evaluating hands preflop in omaha, it is unwise to think in terms of holdem. you want to evaluate your hands in terms of coordination and how many draws you have within your starting hand. to bring up another point, this is why raising preflop is not done for the same reason as it is in holdem. in holdem you want to raise to protect your hand and for value. in omaha you are raising to build a pot for when your draws hit. this is why in omaha it is often correct to call rather than raise with a great hand in ep.

i think ill stop there even though i could write a dissertation on the subject, good luck,

johnny

[Cleveland Guy]

AA23ds actually has 3 nut low draws


Any time the board comes with an A a 2 or a 3, you have the nut low draw, as long as it doesn't have 2 of them.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
AA23ds actually has 3 nut low draws


Any time the board comes with an A a 2 or a 3, you have the nut low draw, as long as it doesn't have 2 of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you

[johnnybeef]

just wanted to add one more thing for all of those holdem players. high pairs in oldem have very high reverse implied odds. in general when i was learning the game i would ask myself every hand "how much of a chance does this hand have of scooping the pot?" and "what has to flop for me to scoop this pot/give me a great chance at scooping this pot?"

hope this helps
johnny

[chaos]

It depends on the game and what effect your raising will have. If you are first in and a raise will eliminate most or all of your opponents, then raise. A pair of aces plays well short handed. If there are already limpers, you should limp also. You want to see the flop cheaply and fold if your hand does not fit the flop.

[TRBNGR]

[ QUOTE ]

In a tournament it would be an altogether different story. I'd probably either fold or come in with a raise, hoping to get one-on-one with a blind. It's a fine one-on-one hand, I suspect. (But I haven't checked it with a simulation).

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

Eary in a (low limit) tournament I'd likely be folding this hand most of the time; limping in from late position if I can. Later in a tournament as the blinds start creping up and less players are seeing the flop this becomes a really solid hand, and I would likely come in with a raise here as straights and flushes become less likely as the # players seeing the flop diminishes.