Dagnabit, I got there.

[Josh W]

Argh.

That's not a "I'm a pirate, gimme your loot" argh. It's more of a "I just got on the freeway, and all I see is 12 miles of tail-lights" argh. Ya know.

See, I got there. And it was with a trouble card. UTG raised, and about 4 people called. I called in the BB with black nines.

The flop came QT2, with two clubs. It got checked around. Weird, eh.

The turn was the 9c, giving me a set, but it's a scary board. In retrospect, I kinda wish an ace or king had ventured onto the board. But it didn't. My set got there. Argh.

I fired out a bet, and UTG raised. THREE PEOPLE CALLED TWO COLD.

I call, and the river brings a blank. I check, UTG bets, one player calls, and it's on me.

I called, and felt foolish while doing so.

Argh.

Josh

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
I called, and felt foolish while doing so.


[/ QUOTE ]

You have to call the turn and I think you have to call the river closing the action for 1 bet.

Couldn't utg have JJ? It's unlikely utg has the flush or straight if he didn't bet the flop and a flush would have raised on the river, so there are a lot of hands you can beat.

[TStoneMBD]

wow you must be on a terrible downswing.

[krishanleong]

I wouldn't feel foolish calling that river bet.

Krishan

[ggbman]

Am i the only one who think he is usually good at least half the time?

[me454555]

3 bet that turn. You got a raiser and 3 callers + a 10out draw to the near nuts. Even if he's got a set your only 3.6:1 against hitting and you'd be getting 4:1 on the raise + implied odds if you hit.

Calling the river is fine here

[Michael Davis]

If he has a set hero has one out. There is no chance that hero has 10 outs.

-Michael

[amulet]

many of us have been there and felt just as foolish paying off a set that is clearly beat by a set8 or flush. it sucks. for 1 bet on my good days i fold on my bad days i pay it off.

[me454555]

What do you mean? We are assuming that villian has a flush here, the board pairing gives hero a fh and his remaining 9 give him 4 of kind. Thats 10 outs buddy.

[BottlesOf]

WTF?

[Soble]

I'd have called the floorman to ask why the deck had two 9's of /images/graemlins/club.gif...Then I would've called the river bet.

[Michael Davis]

I don't know why we are assuming anything. I think it's more likely that villain has a set than a flush, but of course all of these are possibilities. Most opponent would be more likely to bet a high flush or straight draw in this situation than a set of Qs.

But even so, look at the coldcallers in the hand. They're eating up some of his outs no matter how you look at it. He only has 10 outs IF he is against a flush and IF his opponents don't have any of the board cards. Your situation is ideal and unlikely.

-Michael

[schroedy]

Personally I am not this kind of player, but most guys I play against would raise on the river, wait to see if a set of 9's is good, claim the pot if true, and call the floor man for a fouled or mis - deal if not.

Some of them would then come to 2+2 to brag about it.

[Josh W]

My bad...red nines. Most of you were even smart enough to figure that out...congratulations.

On the turn, yeah, I'm getting 4:1 on a possible 3.4:1 draw. There's even a chance that I'm ahead, so should charge other draws.

But as Michael points out, many of my outs have to be in others hands...guys with JT and the like. But with so many people putting 2 bets in on the turn, I need to think that a hand like T9 is a possibility, meaning that a T is no good.

Also, and more importantly, I thought that UTGs most likely holding was a set. What could he raise with preflop, check the flop, and raise the turn with? Any KJ or clubs would bet the flop if they raised preflop, I though. But QQ or TT in a multiway pot may check the flop, hoping to checkraise the field, or checkraise the turn.

If I had to guess, I woulda put UTG on TT. (with top set, QQ, it's tougher to expect somebody else to bet, but with TT, its easy to think somebody would have top pair and bet it).

I really thought that the turn play was much more debatable than the river play. The river, yeah, I should probably pay it off. If I wasn't overcalling, then it's an ubereasy call. But overcalling is what makes it trickier.

Those are just some of my thoughts...

Josh

[AceHigh]

I don't understand your comment.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
If I had to guess, I woulda put UTG on TT. (with top set, QQ, it's tougher to expect somebody else to bet, but with TT, its easy to think somebody would have top pair and bet it).


[/ QUOTE ]

He wouldn't bet a set on the flop? I think most players would bet this flop with a set or a draw.

[Josh W]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I had to guess, I woulda put UTG on TT. (with top set, QQ, it's tougher to expect somebody else to bet, but with TT, its easy to think somebody would have top pair and bet it).


[/ QUOTE ]

He wouldn't bet a set on the flop? I think most players would bet this flop with a set or a draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the flop, yes, I'd think he'd bet a flop. But by the turn, after checking the flop, and then raising the turn, a set is the most likely holding.

And, like I said, with so many people left to act after him, checking with the intent of checkraising the flop seems very reasonable.

Josh

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
And, like I said, with so many people left to act after him, checking with the intent of checkraising the flop seems very reasonable.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's totally unreasonable for a good player.

I don't think you have to 3-bet the turn, depending on the game you could be behind a caller with a str8 who is worried about a flush on the turn, or even a passive player with a small flush.