poker for a living through college

[Cory Neely]

I have been reading this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1548632&page=1&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) post and was wondering if anyone has done what I and 2 other friends are going to do.
We have taken up poker and have been studying the books and playing every chance we get for past 2 years. We have decided to base the majority of our learning and play on live games and not online. We have all read TOP, WLLH, SSH, and TPFAP. We have re-read WLLH and SSH to the point where we have most of it memorized. We are constantly searching for holes in our game and we watch each other close to catch and mistakes the other makes.
Ok enough of the biography. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
This year while going to college instead of working at some fast food joint we have decided to play low limit holdem in our local card rooms for a change. We plan on playing 2/4 - 5/10 depending on our bankroll size and chopping the rent several ways. I have come to the conclusion that the reason why some people dont make it well as a full time poker player is that sometimes people go on bad runs and they run out of money or they try to make it on thier own and not have enough to cover the rent and dont have anyone to back them. A 3 way deal might be a better solution for this problem. If one of us has a bad run for a while then the others could cover. No big deal. This sounds kinda like THE CREW but its not. For one we are all friends. We wouldnt mind if the others lived with us for free so if a bad run of cards happens then so be it.
My question is has anyone done this and lived to tell about it? I know very well working at Mcdonalds or something would be a safer bet but when youre in college you want the freedom to come and go as you please and not have a work schedule that says you have to be at work at 5 on wednesday and thursday then your teacher assigns you an assload or work wednesday morning.
I know we can beat the game without a doubt, Im just wondering if anyone has tried the same situation.
Also what limits would 2-3 people be able to play and live on by sharing bills. (my guess would be 4/8)
Is it bad to think we could each make 30k a year playing low limit cards?

[TheCroShow]

sounds like a really good idea, but it can and will cause problems. playing off the same bankroll is not a good idea. i don't even think i would play off the same bankroll with my brother. money seperates friends.

[RunDownHouse]

I'm going to say that sounds like an awful idea. Nothing sets people on one another like money (or, more accurately, the lack thereof). If you do this, you're going to want written rules about exactly how all of these monetary relationships will work.

[Cory Neely]

I know playing from the same roll is bad (look at the crew). We would actually be playing from seperate rolls. I guess it kinda got confusing when I talked about the helping out stuff but I was just trying to say the fault of most full time poker players is that they go on thier own and if they run out of money then thats it, end. But in the unlikey event (since its such a low limit) that one of us should go through that struggle then the others have his back.

[TheCroShow]

go to my friend's site. there is a core of about 4-5 professionals there, and they help each other out, give each other advice and have grown well together. www.604poker.com (http://www.604poker.com)

[TwinTowers]

Give it a shot. Its not like your risking your life's savings (since you have no life savings). If worse comes to worse, you'd have to get a job.

Remember to consistently stay ahead of the rake, you need to step up from the 3/6 tables, but at the same time you can play outside of your comfort level (that should be in one of those books) /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[mmbt0ne]

Online man, play online. At these low limits in a live game you're gonna see some HUGE swings, just because people are gonna be as crazy as it gets. Add that with tipping on every pot, and it's gonna be hard to end up ahead.

If you each have the roll for 1/2 online while still having a few months expenses covered, there is an abundance of bonus whoring possibilities, and more fish to win money off. You'll be getting more hands/hour, can play more than 1 table at a time, and there is no tipping. If you guys put in some effort and studied, you could get up to 2/4 or 3/6 in a month, maybe 2. And once you get there, I think you'd be able to make enough money (given the effort) to live a college life on.

You can check out balkii's thread here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1461202&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=4&o=14&fpart=1) where he talks about his first year playing as a pro. I copied the relevant numbers portion for you below.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Played the 3/6 game for many many hands, and finally decided I was costing myself money by not moving up to 5/10. Well, played the full games for a while (26K hands) and came out barely ahead. I was living off the incomce so I couldnt take it anymore. Dropped back down. Rebuilt my confidence and my roll and started playing the 5/10 full game only at nights. It was great. Played just like 3/6. Then I finally made the switch to the 6max. Wow. That [censored] is hell. a Lot of fun, but I think i'm gonna die of stress related illness.

I'm not gonna dig thru PT looking for crazy hands or wild beats, but I will post the one beat that I can remember. Table was shorthanded, and I have 88 in the big blind. I think i raised it against an UTG limper and the SB. Flop was 84x. Capped by me and UTG. turn was A. capped. River was A. Capped, and I lose to A4. Ick.

Anyways. So here I am, after 1 year of online pro poker. I played 222,928 hands of poker. I worked 965 hours. I made $43,906.43. I'm looking forward to next year.

[/ QUOTE ]


A lot of college-aged people on these boards have poker as a primary source of income (myself included) and all I can tell you is that if you stay on top of your game, study these forums, post hands, reply to other peoples hands (THE most important thing that very few people do), and honestly put forth an effort to be a winning player, you and your friends have a good chance of succeeding.

[Cory Neely]

Thanks for the feedback so far. When we start playing I will make sure to keep a daily online record of how our sessions went and such. One thing I am concerned about is taxes. I know i'll have to pay them so I really don't care too much about trying to avoid it but what kind of taxes can I be looking at if I were to make 20k or 30k this year just playing poker. I'm sure a broker would tell me these things but have any of you found a good way to get around things like donating your money to charity or something. I was watching the travel channel the other day and it had something on about beating Vegas and I saw if you win more than $1,999 on a slot then you have to pay taxes but if you won $gazillion on a blackjack table you wouldnt have to pay taxes.

[Johnny5]

Unless you are going to try to make a living playing at home games, I suggest you ask the people in another forum.

J5

[Cory Neely]

What section would you recomend?

[Johnny5]

Well, there are a few good options on 2+2. Somehow "Home Poker" wouldn't have been my first choice. I'm just suggesting that if you actually want some good advice, make sure to post your question in a relevant location.

In your OP, you link to the "Brick &amp; Mortar" forum. That is one option. You also discuss playing low limit holdem, so may I suggest either the "Texas Hold'em" or "Small Stakes Pot-, No-Limit Hold'em" forums.

I can provide links to them if you'd like...

J5

[smoore]

I wouldn't play B&amp;M unless it was 5/10 or higher. I don't think you can beat the rake/tips lower than that. Find some juicy home games without a rake and play online instead, IMO.

[warewulf]

What are: TOP, WLLH, SSH (super system)

I recently finished Championship No-Limit &amp; Pot-Limit Holdem by TJ and T. McEvoy, and Super System, both excellent. I ordered TPFAP, on its way. Just wondering what my library is missing.

Please post a link if you post in another forum.

[smoore]

Theory of Poker(Sklansky), Winning Low Limit Holdem (Jones), and Small Stakes Holdem (Miller)

[PittRounder]

[ QUOTE ]
I recently finished Championship No-Limit &amp; Pot-Limit Holdem by TJ and T. McEvoy, and Super System, both excellent.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I know, the McEvoy and Cloutier book has been rated very poorly by many posters. I haven't read it, but I would suggest, as others have, to exercise caution with this book.

[warewulf]

[ QUOTE ]

As far as I know, the McEvoy and Cloutier book has been rated very poorly by many posters. I haven't read it, but I would suggest, as others have, to exercise caution with this book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any links to bad reviews? I like this book. I won 2nd and 3rd in two tourneys, one while half way through the book, the other shortly after finishing it.

[Johnny5]

Unless its from 2+2 - It won't get a very good review on this site. I wonder why? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

J5

[hoyle12]

I think its a good Idea. Doyle Brunson, Amirillo Slim and one other guy did it back in the 60s and 70s. They were not playing low limit but they made a pretty good living. Look at all of them now. More power to ya. I hope you succeed. Wish I had 2 friend just to help me with my game and talk poker theory. Just make sure your bankroll is a descent bankroll because if you are depending on 2 of you to win to pay bills it may not work.

[bholdr]

Sounds like a very lofty goal to me.

why not try it as a hobby (albeit a profitable one) first? I use poker to win beer money and pay the cable bill, and that's it- i play about 30 hrs a month playing 1/2 and up. it works pretty well, but that's online, where i can 4-table low limits and bonus whore)

how much have you actually played?

and no way you're making 30k playing live 2/4-5/10 -think 1bb/hr

and i don't wanna be seen as a spammer, so PM me if you're interested in some other online options...

[grandgnu]

Alright, so you and two friends decide to live together through college, share expenses and play poker to support yourselves.

The good ol' college-boy dream, eh? I'm not sure how old you are, but I'm guessing you probably need some life experience. Here are some of mine:

1. Living With Roommates: They can be unreliable, consume more food than you do but then you're paying for food you didn't eat, not always have money to pay the electric bill on time, etc. They may be a total slob while you're a neat freak. You WILL get tired of them.

2. Trusting People: I've had friends at my home games that I grew up with. I thought we were close, but I caught them attempting to give themselves an edge, however slight (missing antes, splashing the pot with less than the actual bet, etc)

You'll realize as you age, that a lot of your "friends" are really acquantinces. When there's money involved, friendships and relationships can be tested or outright destroyed.

How could you possibly know if your two buddies are actually winning any money? They might say they lost and skip out on the bills, while socking the money aside or spending it on something else. They might under-report their winnings so they don't have to pay as much towards the living expenses as you do.

And how will you begin to feel, when you're paying 70% or more of the living expenses for these two schmoes, doing all the work, bringing in all the money? You'll feel like you're carrying their weight, that they are a burden that is holding you back. Any winnings you realize will be chewed up by their expenses.

Good luck to ya man.

[jtr]

Jeez, gnu, you live in a dark world.

Still, I absolutely agree with what you've said here so I guess I am a resident also.

Cheers,
--JTR.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
Jeez, gnu, you live in a dark world.

Still, I absolutely agree with what you've said here so I guess I am a resident also.

Cheers,
--JTR.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately it's a world known as reality. *smirk*

After I hit 20 I became quite an apathetic person. Disintrested in the political process (since only the ultra-wealthy have the resources and free time necessary to run for office)

I realized that life is extremely short, it flys by very quickly. That's why I try my best to only work 32 hours per week. I could snag 40-48 hours a week easily, but I'd rather enjoy my free time. Kinda hampers my disposable income a bit, but time to me is more valuable.

But yeah, I guess I do live in a dark world. I used to be a very giving person in my younger years, and found that people tend to take advantage of you. Now I'm pretty selfish and all about taking care of me first.

I don't like being bothered with others annoying habits I had a roommate who would go and grab the bag of dorito's, munch munch munch, then crinkle crinkle crinkle the bag closed. Then he'd get back up a minute later and do it again. It's like, dude, get a friggin bowl instead of making all that friggin noise!

This same roommate I saw enter my bedroom (I was in my computer room with the door open). So he comes out of my bedroom holding one of my Maxim magazines, looks at me, says "sh*tter" and then goes to the bathroom. I'm thinking to myself "um, if I wanted you to be reading that on the can, I'd have left it in there!"

And whenever I'd go out to eat at Friendlies with my buds, they'd ALWAYS try to shaft me with more of the bill than I was responsible for. They'd always come up short, or try to say they didn't owe as much as they did (tried to not include tax, tip, etc) So I started getting a separate check.

Then you get the "friends" who only call you when they want something (i.e. they're moving and don't want to pay movers, so they bother you). And people who just show up at your place unannounced, looking to hang out (I'm a very personal and selfish person, if I want to hang out with you, I'll give you a call. Or at least give ME a call in ADVANCE and that way I won't be sitting around in my boxers, scratching myself when you show up)

I guess I just don't like being bothered or inconvenienced. Maybe I have a lot of rude people in my life. Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man at the age of 28.

[Rusty266]

I'd say he lives in the real world and to a degree he could be sugar coating things. If you want to make the percentage play, think this way.

The roommates will be unreliable, period. They will have things about them that are not good or that you will not like or be able to accept. And thats not necessarily saying anything bad about them, the same can be said about anyone. Its just the way it is. You want to make yourself a new enemy? Live with them for a few months.

As for the trust issue, thats easy. No. Not gonna happen. Naturally there are exceptions, and miracles do happen, but thats the percentage play.

As always, govern yourself accordingly.....

[speclj]

Hear, Hear.

[warewulf]

I will attest to gnu, I've had plenty of bad roomates. I agree -- want to lose a friend? Rent a place with them. When I first moved out of my folks house at 21 I became the person responsible for a 4 bedroom house. I had to forcibly throw out a friend that couldn't come up with rent, bad situation. Money issues often complicate relationships whether it's with friends or significant others.

I still say go for it though. Try it out, you can always get a job flipping burgers if it doesn't pan out. Just talk with your friends and try to agree that if anyone backs out at any point, no harsh feelings.

When you start, you will have issues that some disagree on. Come up with a system for problem resolution. Since there's 3 of you, this should be easy to work out. Vote on everything. Odd man out may get upset, but that's part of business.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I will attest to gnu, I've had plenty of bad roomates. I agree -- want to lose a friend? Rent a place with them. When I first moved out of my folks house at 21 I became the person responsible for a 4 bedroom house. I had to forcibly throw out a friend that couldn't come up with rent, bad situation. Money issues often complicate relationships whether it's with friends or significant others.

I still say go for it though. Try it out, you can always get a job flipping burgers if it doesn't pan out. Just talk with your friends and try to agree that if anyone backs out at any point, no harsh feelings.

When you start, you will have issues that some disagree on. Come up with a system for problem resolution. Since there's 3 of you, this should be easy to work out. Vote on everything. Odd man out may get upset, but that's part of business.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still think it's going to end up with at least one of them feeling held back, like he's carrying the burden of the other two. Poker players tend to have pretty large egos about their own abilities and skills. When you have to support two other "lesser" players, or you are the lesser player, I expect you'll have problems.

Just don't say I didn't warn ya. :P