20-40 Brantford, A9o

[stinkypete]

I haven't played a lot at this limit, but I would assume this game is better than the average game at this limit. There are 3 loose players that limp/cold call too much and take their hands much too far, in seats 2, 4, and 8, all of whom are in this hand. the rest of the players are quite tight, and haven't been cold-calling much.

I'm in the 5-seat.

The big blind is in seat 1. A loose player who would raise almost any two broadway limps UTG. Another loose, bad player limps in seat 4.

I pick up A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif and raise. Pro(?) to my left folds as I'd hoped, loose player in CO cold calls (he would do this with J8s, etc.), button folds, solid player (another pro?) in SB folds, BB folds, and limpers call.

All the players I wanted out folded, all the players I wanted in called. So far so good.

Flop is A/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 10/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Checked to me, I bet. Loose CO calls, favourite customer #1 UTG calls, favourite customer #2 to my right calls.

Turn is 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif or some other rag.

Checked to me, I bet. CO folds, FC#1 check-raises, FC#2 calls. I think for a second and decide he could easily be making this play with a pair and a gutshot, any ace, or several other holdings I have beat. FC#2's possible holdings are approximately the same. I call.

River is the 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

Checked to me and I check.

[TStoneMBD]

fold preflop. this is not the seat nor the hand you want to be isolating loose limpers with. i admire your intention to move into new territory with isolation, but not good.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop. this is not the seat nor the hand you want to be isolating loose limpers with. i admire your intention to move into new territory with isolation, but not good.

[/ QUOTE ]

new territory?

[stinkypete]

where do you draw the line? do you raise with ATo?

i personally would raise ATo here without thinking twice. is this way out of line too? A9o to me is marginal, so i can't say i know for sure whether it's profitable or not here. against these opponents, i would guess that it is.

this is the main reason why i posted this hand, so i'd appreciate slightly more elaborate responses.

a condescending, authoritative response with no reasoning isn't going to convince me.

[TStoneMBD]

didnt mean to be condescending, i was trying to be positive, sorry. there was a recent discussion on the forums debating ATo in the CO against 2 limpers. AT is worth a raise against 2 weak players, but when in the CO. A9o from MP is worth a fold. A9 is not AT, just like AT is not AJ. MP is not CO. A9o plays terrible multiway. You were fortunate to get it 3handed. If you knew you could get it 3handed every time against the 2weakies then this play would usually be profitable. However, more often than not you will get a coldcaller behind you or at least 1 of the blinds coming along.

[Stork]

I would fold because because of the two solid players still left to act behind you. In this particular case it worked out perfectly, but I don't think A9o is strong enough to put in a raise with in hopes of folding out both the solid players and having all the looseys call, who could have you dominated. That said, I think it's close, and I may or may not raise ATo here, and would definetely raise AJo.
I like your postflop play, although I would probably bet the river. I don't know how it works in the 20-40, but typically from my experience(which isn't at 20-40),if a player check-raises the turn with a good hand, they will almost always lead the river. Since he didn't, he was probably just trying to get fancy on the turn with a bluff, a draw, or a weak made hand. Now he may call with some of those holdings although he'll probably fold most, but you have a value bet because FC#2 is coming along for the ride.

[Kaz The Original]

So long as the pros and or weak tight's at the table view you as good this isolation play is fine. I have not played the 20/40 at brantford yet, but I am semi experienced with the 10/20.

Turn check raises are sometimes pure bluffs, sometimes two pairs, sometimes draws and sometimes made hands. River check raises are rare, but they happen, and river check calls with better hands happen in this game.

So long as you can fold if a pro / weak tight comes in and gives action on ace high flop, all is played perfectly.