Mucking face up

[ShawnHoo]

I was reading mike l.'s thread about a hand where he CR'd the river with 55 and caused someone else to fold KK (the would-be winner) face up.

Why do folks make these types of big/bad folds face-up? Have they seen too much Phil Hellmuth on TV? I'm just having a tough time figuring out how this play is +EV.

[CardSharpCook]

shawn, I agree with you. Why give your opponents information? Also, you do that, you paint yourself into a corner - the next time you get chk/rzd on the river you're going to wonder if it is by someone who remembered you folding to a similiar chk/rz with a huge overpair. I think it affects your play more than your opponents when you fold like that.

It comes down to confidence. If it gives you confidence in yourself to lay down cards face-up, do it. If you find that it takes away your confidence, don't. As for me, I like keeping the variables low and my opponents ignorant.

CSC

[TStoneMBD]

ill fold faceup in nolimit sometimes, but i rarely ever fold face up in limit. you have to be against poorer opposition in order to make faceup folds profitable. youre giving away information by folding faceup, but if you have good control over your opponents and are capable of thinking on much deeper levels then them, youre manipulating them to think something other than reality. if you show your cards, you know what theyre thinking, how they will react in the future, and what to do about it. thats quite an advantage. again, i never fold my cards face up against serious opposition, but meager ones yes. in the thread you talked about, mikel's opposition probably made a huge mistake folding faceup as its likely that mikel is probably a better player than he is.

[Snoogins47]

The only time I fold face up is in homegames with friends, or if I've got a specific target in mind.

I remember sitting at a $2-$5 spread limit game, and on the third orbit or so, I flopped two pair on a ridiculously coordinated board... something like 9s Ts, board was 8h 9c Th, turn Jh, river 2h.

I had a lot of pressure on the flop from a guy who had bet/raised 90% of streets since I had been there. Quite the maniac, but had expressed distress a few times after being called down with second pair, etc. The typical "why the hell won't you fold?" maniac line.

He bets, I sigh, fold face up. A decent player gives me a crooked half smile, knowing my frustration. The LAG gives me the most shocked look in the world.

There was no question folding the river was proper, showing or not. However, the two decent-seeming players respected the absolute hell out of my raises from then on, and the LAG was going to just funnel more money to me. I think it's a win-win. In fact, I was actually able to manipulate it perfectly, and with a read on both players in the pot, I was able to push the better player off a better hand than mine, and get the LAG to go to war with the worst of it.

Sadly, the meta-game considerations ended two orbits later, because an Omaha table opened up, and I can't pass that up.

[sthief09]

they either do it out of frustration, like "you motherfucker, you cracked my kings" or "look hwo good I am. I know I'm beat so I'm going to lay down my overpair and show the world"

[TStoneMBD]

those are definitely NOT reasons to show your hand face up, and is almost as bad as tilt and fps.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just having a tough time figuring out how this play is +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

They're not doing it as a +EV move. Or anything to do with EV for that matter. You're giving too much credit that they're playing +EV poker at all. That they've even read a book more than once.

Frustration and soliciting sympathy are the 2 prime culprits.

b