JJ, turn question

[ThaSaltCracka]

For some reason the turn bet by the BB bothered me, so I called. Too weak-tight? I didn't have much of a read, as this was only my third hand at the table.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds, Button folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

[A_C_Slater]

Wow! You're actually posting about poker? I would raise the turn. I see this a lot and it usually doesn't mean anything. He's probably betting cause the board paired and he thinks he can represent trips. If he actually hit trips he would slowplay because all fish know that trips are a monster and deserving of a good slowplay.


Also, you have to get the others out who are chasing with their Ace/King high, bottom pair, etc.

[Vern]

I think I raise the turn. I put him on a middle pair below your jacks, 77-TT or something like A6s, and he is using the StopnGo to prevent you from getting a free draw card on the turn. I think you need to raise the turn and call a three-bet. My river action would depend on the river card and opponents so I don't have a line to offer until I see the card&amp;action.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert at any of this.

[adamstewart]

Raise the turn.

Most of the time, if he really had a "3" he'd go for a check-raise.

He's probably got a lower pair than you, and figured you only had overcards.

Just my thoughts....

Adam

[balkii]

this is a mandatory turn raise. he almost surely doesnt have trips, a raise can shut out the rest of the field, and you have HUGE equity if he doesnt have a kicker higher than a J because you have two pair now.

that said, sometimes he'll have a 3 (or something else) and you'll get owned. but you gotta raise almost always here.

[ThaSaltCracka]

yeah I thought I should have raised it, thats why I posted it.

Thanks guys.

[wacki]

Glad to see you're actually playing/studying poker Salt. Keep it up!

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Glad to see you're actually playing/studying poker Salt. Keep it up!

[/ QUOTE ]I try. I have almost finished SSHE too.

[wacki]

Good 4 you, download Pokertracker too. People will need reads to really help you on hands like these. If you need help with PT just ask. Trial version is free, so do it now. It's easy to use.

[ThaSaltCracka]

yeah I have it, I also have GameTime+

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mike Gallo]

Salt,

Love your sarcastic wit so I figured I would post an answer. And since you get annoyed with posters who only lurk, I will give you my thoughts and ask some questions.

You raised preflop +1 utg, cutoff poster calls and the button calls. Big blind and unknown defends for one more bet, why not he closes action. BB could have a lot of different hands. BB could have a pocket pair, BB could have over cards BB could have suited connectors BB could have suited junk. The same with the cutoff. Cutoff already has money in the pot.The cutoff feels almost obligated to play now. The button calls for the same reason.

Flop,

BB bets. His bet could mean anything. I do not play online poker so take this with a grain of salt. Most players with something would check raise this flop, especially after a preflop raiser. I agree with the flop raise. Since he does not reraise, I feel confident about betting the turn.

Turn

Bottom card pairs the boars.

The BB does the old stop and go and starts again. Hero calls? Why? I doubt the villian bet bottom pair, and if he set most players would check raise, especially after just getting raised on the flop.

This leads to my question, with a pretty coordinated board and players to act behind you, what made you smooth call instead of raise. Did you this as a slow play, or did you not know what to do? Most times I will err on the case of aggression. However if you raised, and someone reraised behind you, now how do you play the hand.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
This leads to my question, with a pretty coordinated board and players to act behind you, what made you smooth call instead of raise. Did you this as a slow play, or did you not know what to do?

[/ QUOTE ] I didn't know what to do. I guess I should have raised and worried about a potential re-raise. If it was re-raised, I am not sure what I would have done, call it down?

edit: thanks for the reply Mike.

[Mike Gallo]

Again..I do not play Party poker or online poker at all. With that in mind I offer my suggestions.

If it was re-raised, I am not sure what I would have done, call it down? I would unless I spiked a jack. Too often a player will have a pair below jacks 77-10,10. Especially after a sit and go. Your opponent could think your raising with overs or with suited overs. Think of what your opponent puts you on. Then think what he thinks your putting him on. If your opponent does not consider what you have, then I would call down. Since most players do not consider my holding I will call.

I didn't know what to do.

At least you did not fold. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

thanks for the reply Mike.

Anytime.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't know what to do. I guess I should have raised and worried about a potential re-raise. If it was re-raised, I am not sure what I would have done, call it down?

edit: thanks for the reply Mike.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where reads come in. What is the guys VP$IP, Preflop raise, and postflop aggression? Since all the cards that have come are undercards you are in decent shape. I've never played 1/2, but I'm thinking the play here is bad enough that you can call down.

[ThaSaltCracka]

IIRC, his VpIP was fishish, but his PFR was very low. I think I was being to weak here.

Okay, thanks guys, and Wacki what do you play?

[wacki]

It varies, but only small stakes right now. I play mostly live. There's a few local games I play in that's 10/20 that I am slaughtering and I have a PL game in Indy that I normally bring about $3-500 bucks to. At the same time, I am on a college campus right now so I have a lot of poor friends and I have a home game that we play $10 buy-ins. I'm normally drunk as hell during that game. I earned my Pooh-Bah in politics/OOT so I have serious holes in my game. Most of the time I post I'm in the lab waiting for reactions to run, and not playing poker. My butt is in gear now, so hopefully in a few months I will have truly earned my Pooh-Bah status.

[ThaSaltCracka]

me too. [ QUOTE ]
My butt is in gear now, so hopefully in a few months I will have truly earned my Pooh-Bah status.

[/ QUOTE ]

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
this is a mandatory turn raise. he almost surely doesnt have trips, a raise can shut out the rest of the field, and you have HUGE equity if he doesnt have a kicker higher than a J because you have two pair now.


[/ QUOTE ]

The players behind you could easily have 6-10 outs between them and you have to raise into them.

Also 1/2 goes in Micro brah.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Also 1/2 goes in Micro brah.

[/ QUOTE ] I realized that after I posted, sorry brah.

[sfer]

No problem brah. Posting hands is fun.

[ThaSaltCracka]

you like how I even used the converter?

[sfer]

I do. Wanna try to get a flame on this post?

[cnfuzzd]

since you have already recieved good advice, i will criticize your reading of SSHE. In it, Miller et al discuss how bets on the turn card, especially if it an odd scare card, almost never mean what one would think they do. So, after you get done reading SSHE, read it again. Then boil it down, and inject it into your viens. Then buy a new copy.

peace

john nickle

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
So, after you get done reading SSHE, read it again. Then boil it down, and inject it into your viens. Then buy a new copy.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, no kidding. I'm writting notes in the margins of my second copy write now. The first one is too marked up to read.

[wacki]

Roy Cooke has some good books as well. Buy Mike Petriv's Hold'em odds book too.

[Moss Factor]

Raise the turn. If he actually made trips, as others have stated, he would more than likely go for the check-raise. The 3 pairing more than likely helps you, since it defends against a random 2-pair that the BB very well may have. If he has the strait, then you're drawing to 4 outs-- good luck. But I still think if he's holding the strait he goes for the check-raise.

Do not be afraid of monsters under the bed. Raise for strait value and bet out the river. If you get 3-bet, I'd still call down. It's too easy for the BB to have an overpair that JJ beats or top two pair that you're beating.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I do. Wanna try to get a flame on this post?

[/ QUOTE ]Bison wouldn't mind, right?