Bill Belicheck. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

kenberman

01-16-2005, 11:28 PM

...Romeo Crennel is the man who puts together the Pats defensive gameplan every week. Belicheck says this week after week, but everybody always talks about "Belicheck's Gameplan".

I'm a huge Pats fan, and a huge Belicheck fan, but just as praise is often unduly heaped on a QB (I'm looking at you, Roethlisberger), sometimes Belicheck gets a bit too much credit.

That said, he's the best coach in the NFL. And for once, I can actually say "and it's not even close" and be right /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Edge34

01-17-2005, 12:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm glad the Pats won. I was sick of hearing about Peyton Manning all week long.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Colts didn't play very well, but the Colts v. Patriots "game" was clearly the worst instance of officiating incompetence ever. Either they put the worst official crew they could on this game, or there was something fishy going on. Once again, the Pats got away with murder on their way to yet another playoff win. Bet the league loves a story like the Patriots.

Case in point - on the long Corey Dillon run that put the Pats at the 1, followed by the Tom Brady sneak, there was a clear case of holding on a Patriot offensive lineman, nearly taking a Colt's shoulder pads off him. Could not be more disgusted.

Tom Brady's still overrated, and the Steelers are going to Jacksonville. Take that to the bank.

fatmongo

01-17-2005, 12:18 AM

Wow man what game were you watching? Sure, calls get missed here and there. But to call it 'the worst instance of officiating incompetence ever' is just stating how biased and or blind you are. Do you think that Indy has never gotten away with a hold or an offensive pass interference? Every team gets it in their favor, as well as against.

And how is Tom Brady overrated? Outside of local news, nobody gave the Patriots a chance in this game, and said if it came down to a shootout, he could never hack it with Manning. I guess thats what you ask for when you build this game up to be Manning vs the Patriots though.

Edge34

01-17-2005, 12:27 AM

Hey, everybody gets missed calls here and there, and in the playoffs a lot of them are understandable. But repeatedly, and especially in this case, a clear penalty was avoided on what turned out to be a key play.

I'm the first guy to admit the Ponies didn't play a very good game, but lets face it, stuff like this didn't help them one bit. To be fair, I didn't mention anything about the Patriots field care throughout the week. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Tom Brady is going to be overrated (in my mind) until people quit acting like he's the only (or even a main) reason the Pats won those two Super Bowls. Not to mention, a messed-up call is what got the Patriot past the Raiders and into the first of those games. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Its been a rough day for me with the Vikes going down and then another game like this in Foxboro. Every team gets it in their favor once in a while, but the Patriots always seem to get them in just the right time in just the right place. All the respect to that killer D, but they will go down when they have to go on the road and face a team that actually plays defense, too.

nothumb

01-17-2005, 12:34 AM

Please. Enough already. They already changed the rules just for your boys this year after you cried about it. I loved Bruschi in the locker room after the game, like, "I wonder what rule changes they're going to request this time..."

Belichick owns the Colts, and owns Manning, get over it. He's Dan Marino all over again.

And the field conditions were actually fine after this whole conspiracy theory about that. And anyway, bad turf doesn't make guys drop passes and fumble, does it. /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

If there's one bandwagon I wouldn't mind people jumping on it's the Patriots. They are an exemplary sports franchise from top to bottom and they deserve the recognition.

NT

fatmongo

01-17-2005, 12:39 AM

I dunno, I guess I just find everything you say to be the exact opposite of how I see it.
Most notably how the AFC title game is gonna turn out.

Edge34

01-17-2005, 12:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I loved Bruschi in the locker room after the game, like, "I wonder what rule changes they're going to request this time..."

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if the refs didn't keep ignoring obvious penalties like the one I mentioned on Corey Dillon's run, I don't think anybody would have a problem. Also, they didn't request a rule change - the Pats WERE mugging the Colts receivers last time around, and that 5-yard rule has always been in effect. Things just conveniently go for the Patriots at the right times.

Notice, please, nothumb, that I admitted the Colts playing a bad game. See there? I'm not crying, I'm admitting a fact. We still might not have won the game if the officials actually WERE any good, but at least I could have seen it as a good game between two good teams instead of just wondering what the refs were gonna do next.

Oh, and Cowher owns this year's Patriots. Boston fans are getting greedy, the Sporting Gods already gave you guys the Red Sox, and you got the Patriots title last season. There's only so many miracles they can hand out, ya know.

What do you call 30 teams watching the Super Bowl at home?

Everyone but the Steelers and Falcons. (at least, my prediction)

I can't keep doing this in two threads, that's all I've got for this one.

Edge34

01-17-2005, 12:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, I guess I just find everything you say to be the exact opposite of how I see it.
Most notably how the AFC title game is gonna turn out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You probably also think Tom Brady really did throw an incomplete pass against the Raiders and that OJ really didn't kill those people, right? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

fatmongo

01-17-2005, 12:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You probably also think Tom Brady really did throw an incomplete pass against the Raiders and that OJ really didn't kill those people, right? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha you would think. But the 'tuck' I consider to be a gift, though it can still be argued either way. And as far as OJ, there is no question in my mind as to his guilt. Wherever that came from. Are you still bitter about that??

nothumb

01-17-2005, 12:53 AM

I remember that Brady play and I remember thinking they got that call wrong, even as a Pats fan. But that was what, 3 years ago?

But today, I just didn't see the imbalance. I saw both teams get away with some holds, some worse than others. People get away with holding on a ton of plays every game, especially in a game that is mainly fought within 5 yards of scrimmage. And the play between d-backs and receivers was well called on both sides IMHO.

Indy got taken out of their game and didn't stand a chance. It's like the Carolina/Wake game a few days ago. I thought there were some awful calls, but the Heels took themselves out of the game by shooting like 4% from the field, so you didn't hear me complaining.

NT

Edge34

01-17-2005, 01:00 AM

I guess maybe my whole idea was a little misunderstood, which is entirely realistic on a message board (especially this one /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

Yeah, the Colts played like crap, but for most of the last 3 NFL seasons, all we're subjected to is "Patriots this, Patriots that", and with the exception of this week, nobody ever has anything bad to say about them! Hell, they lost to the freaking DOLPHINS on national television and most people just said "oh well, can happen to anybody, they're still the dynasty, yada yada yada...".

I don't know where you're from, thumb, but NOT being from Massachussets and the surrounding area, I know I'm not alone when I say it gets old hearing endless commentary on how great the Patriots are. Its always either that or the next talking head saying how bad of a person they think Randy Moss is for one end zone celebration he does.

Are the Patriots a good team? Certainly, nobody denies that. But wow, when I see games that could be good always marked by other things, it just bugs me. Nothing's perfect I guess, and more credit to the Patriots for stopping the Colts, but it just kinda builds up all season. Playoff intensity, right?

One more thing - didn't catch Carolina/Wake, but I'm sure I'll be able to see them in March. The real game was in West Lafayette between Purdue and IU. As a Hoosier, all I know is Indiana sports are cursed. Must be the water. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

fatmongo

01-17-2005, 01:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
but NOT being from Massachussets and the surrounding area, I know I'm not alone when I say it gets old hearing endless commentary on how great the Patriots are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kind of like how I'm sick of hearing about how great Peyton is year after year after year. He is good. Better than good. But no need to force him down my throat. And it ain't just cuz we end up playing the Colts year after year. People just love swinging on his balls. For this I hate Manning more than I hate the Yankees, but thats only cuz I'm not a baseball fan.

lastchance

01-17-2005, 01:17 AM

Pats outplayed the Colts out there. No ifs, ands, or buts.

That said, the Pittsburgh Steelers are a helluva lot different than the Colts. Most importantly, they're better.

You know how people were saying this is the real Super Bowl (Colts-Pats)? They were wrong, next week will be the real Super Bowl (I hope).

Toro

01-17-2005, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Tom Brady's still overrated

[/ QUOTE ]

You're delusional. Manning is the one who is over-rated.

Rick Nebiolo

01-17-2005, 01:20 AM

He is the only Boston coach/manager my father has ever liked so he must be good /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

~ Rick

Daliman

01-17-2005, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tom Brady's still overrated

[/ QUOTE ]

You're delusional. Manning is the one who is over-rated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not overrated. Just the best QB in the NFL and a guaranteed 1st year inductee into the Hall of Fame. Super bowls may or may not come, but those of you saying it's Peyton's fault just don't know football, period. It was never Marino's fault, never Elway's fault before TD got there, and it SURE as hell ain't Peyton's fault.

As far as Brady is concerned, I think he's very good, but HE'S overrated. Let's wait a couple years from now when the Pats aren't dominating to see how great he is then.

daryn

01-17-2005, 02:06 AM

<blockquote>In risposta di:<hr />
<blockquote>In risposta di:<hr />
You probably also think Tom Brady really did throw an incomplete pass against the Raiders and that OJ really didn't kill those people, right? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha you would think. But the 'tuck' I consider to be a gift, though it can still be argued either way. And as far as OJ, there is no question in my mind as to his guilt. Wherever that came from. Are you still bitter about that??

[/ QUOTE ]

man, this guy is an idiot.

about that tuck rule: when it happened, even everyone here in NE was like, wow what a break we got! then it came out during the week that the official actually MADE THE CORRECT CALL according to some obscure rule in the rulebook that your avg. fan has no idea about. the correct call was made after all. imagine that!

lastchance

01-17-2005, 02:11 AM

The break was that the rule was actually there in the first place, and the Patriots got lucky enough to take advantage of it.

daryn

01-17-2005, 02:28 AM

<blockquote>In risposta di:<hr />
The break was that the rule was actually there in the first place, and the Patriots got lucky enough to take advantage of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

for sure. but how crazy to claim that the officials blew the call.

jstnrgrs

01-17-2005, 02:31 AM

Well, I see that you enjoy making excuses rather than just admiting that you team got beat.

I don't know of anyone who thinks that Brady is the main reason the Pats won those superbowls (most would say Belicheck).

The call against the Radiers was not messed up. It was called exactly as the rule was writen (and would be called the same today if it happened again).

Last year the Colts whined until the league made a point of emphesis on the illegal contact rule that would favor them. Perhapse this year they can convince the league to make a rule that defenders must maintain a five yard halo from recievers, and that the quarterback cannot be rushed until a count of 10 Mississippi. Even if this were to happen, it would not matter. The Pats would adjust and beat the Colts again next year.

I think that next weeks game against the Steelers will be a much tougher test.

daryn

01-17-2005, 02:33 AM

<blockquote>In risposta di:<hr />
and that the quarterback cannot be rushed until a count of 10 Mississippi.

[/ QUOTE ] /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Edge34

01-17-2005, 02:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tom Brady's still overrated

[/ QUOTE ]

You're delusional. Manning is the one who is over-rated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you'd show me some stats that are entirely on Manning versus Brady, I'll believe you.

nothumb

01-17-2005, 02:50 AM

The only ones that matter:

Super Bowl Rings:

Manning 0
Brady 2

Thanks,
NT

ArchAngel71857

01-17-2005, 02:51 AM

Edge34

01-17-2005, 02:57 AM

If Brady had won those Super Bowls by himself...hell, if he had even thrown the game winning TD pass (instead of taking the MVP glory when it was Adam Vinatieri's kicks...), then MAYBE, MAYBE I'd give it to you. Please remove your lips from Tom Brady's scrotum and try again.

Thanks,
Edge

PS. I forgot something. Do you think Brady is better than Marino then too? Didn't think so.

Edge34

01-17-2005, 03:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Douche Bag Brothers:
Manning - 1
Brady - 0.

-AA

[/ QUOTE ]

Zing. You're right, but this doesn't reflect on Peyton's talent. That's like me saying All-Pro QB dads, Peyton 1, Brady 0. Next?

Actually, I'll just save ya the trouble, it can't be done. When it comes down to straight up player stats, Manning dominates in every meaningful category.

This Year:

Peyton - 336 of 497, 67.6%, 4557 yards, 49 TD/10 INT, 121.1 QB rating.

Brady - 288 of 474, 60.8%, 3692 yards, 28 TD/14 INT, 92.6

(All this is really just in response to the earlier post about why there's even an argument. There isn't. The man is Peyton, and its not close.)

lastchance

01-17-2005, 03:25 AM

Unfortunately, the NFL is a team game, and the Patriots are better at playing football than any other team in the league. They do more with less.

Edge34

01-17-2005, 03:45 AM

Actually, I don't think they do more with less. I think they do more with MORE. For some messed up reason, they can start a 5'8" WR at corner and not totally implode. They're one of the great system teams, kinda like the Broncos running, where their defense just works. They don't have superstars, but like their AFC title game opponents, they have a lot of good role players that make it work. No disrespect, but as long as people (especially the media) stop kissing Brady's ass, then we're just fine.

Daliman

01-17-2005, 04:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The only ones that matter:

Super Bowl Rings:

Manning 0
Brady 2

Thanks,
NT

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that puts Dilfer, Hostetler, Williams, Brad Johnson, Rypien, Theismann, Morrall are also better QB's than Manning.

Get a clue.

nothumb

01-17-2005, 04:08 AM

I wasn't trying to say that Brady is a better quarterback than Manning during the regular season... I was merely pointing out that his team has more Super Bowl victories than Manning's, and that, as a Patriots fan, that's all I care about. Manning is a brilliant QB. Brady is a competent, intelligent, and driven player.

I think Brady is a gamer for life and makes great decisions in the big games. One could argue that he is more of a big game QB than Manning by a long shot.

NT

tolbiny

01-17-2005, 09:13 AM

"...Romeo Crennel is the man who puts together the Pats defensive gameplan every week. Belicheck says this week after week, but everybody always talks about "Belicheck's Gameplan"."

I hear this, and i still have to remember that on Parcells' teams that won ssuper bowls Belicheck was the D coordinator.

tolbiny

01-17-2005, 09:18 AM

"Oh, and Cowher owns this year's Patriots"

Thisis a joke, right? I guess Miami also owns this years Patriots too, cause they also beat them once. Cower doesn't own anyone- hes a very good otivational coach, and an excellent regular season caoch. But his teams are generally very beatable, and my money will be on the Pats again next week.

Toro

01-17-2005, 09:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tom Brady's still overrated

[/ QUOTE ]

You're delusional. Manning is the one who is over-rated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you'd show me some stats that are entirely on Manning versus Brady, I'll believe you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stats are meaningless. Manning played over half his games in domes this year with perfect conditions. The only stat that matters is how your team fares in the playoffs and Brady trumps Manning every time.

2planka

01-17-2005, 09:23 AM

sour grapes.

wipe yer chin.

2planka

01-17-2005, 09:28 AM

Stat: Patriots 20, Manning 3.

2planka

01-17-2005, 09:46 AM

I see. So there really is a conspiracy against the Dolts.

There were very few penalties called in that game. How many did the Dolts give up? Oh, I forgot. They don't commit penalties because they have Golden Boy squatting under center (and then walking away in attempt to deceive the defense). Manning was on tilt from the second series of the game. The frustration was apparent. He's a fine player and a great QB, but he fails to adapt to game situations as well as other QB's. I'm sure he'll work on this and be back in the playoffs next year.

Face the facts, man. The Dolts got outplayed in every facet of the game. Period. They lost. Period. They got smoked. They can try again next year to win in Foxboro.

ArchAngel71857

01-17-2005, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Zing. You're right, but this doesn't reflect on Peyton's talent. That's like me saying All-Pro QB dads, Peyton 1, Brady 0. Next?

[/ QUOTE ]

More like: Douche-bag fathers:
Manning - 2 (Archie and the Patriots, PIZZZY!)
Brady - 0.

-AA

2planka

01-17-2005, 10:13 AM

For the Dolts apologists: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs04/columns/story?id=1968528

Pay particular attention to Bruschi's comments.

kyro

01-17-2005, 05:32 PM

AA you've offered nothing useful or remotely relevant to this thread, but dammit have I appreciated every word.

PhatTBoll

01-17-2005, 05:35 PM

Would this make the Patriots the Titans' douchebag grandpappy?

ArchAngel71857

01-18-2005, 01:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Would this make the Patriots the Titans' douchebag grandpappy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you, the bandwagon was driving by too fast.

-AA

Number4

01-18-2005, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When it comes down to straight up player stats, Manning dominates in every meaningful category.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as we don't include wins, or almost anything to do with the playoffs or SuperBowl, as meaningful categories, I agree.

Manning is a choke artist - and will be until he proves otherwise. Let's go ahead and add SOS to Manning's list of daddies.

As for the original topic, I don't care for the Pats at all, but that coach is damn good.