VERY close preflop calls (suggestions what would you do)

[Willluck]

What would you do?

Q#1. 66 in bb +3 2/4 table(3-5 players on average to the flop)

Q#2. KJo in bb +4 same conditions

Q#3. K7s on button same conditions 2 people already in.

Q#4. A9s in bb calling a raise (only one other person besides raiser entered) (mid-position open raise)

P.S. i know a lot of you veterans do not appreciate posts like these, in your eyes these matters are f-ing clown shoes. But since i am a member i reserve the right to post whatever the hell i want.

[DemonDeac]

whats bb +3? u mean MP1 or UTG+2?

[Willluck]

utg+2 sorry, and for bb+4 mp1 again sorry i am new with posts

[Harv72b]

1) Depends on how aggressive the table is. I'll limp 66 all the way from UTG on a loose passive table (not that I recommend that). UTG+2, yeah, I'd limp even first in. However, that's one of the aspects in my game that I'm looking at.

2) KJo I muck from MP1, unless I'm on a tight/weak table and think I can steal the blinds by raising first in.

3) K7s I'll call from the button against 2 opponents & likely calls by the blinds. Position is the key, though--I might muck it from CO, depending on my mood & the other players.

4) Depends entirely on my reads of the opponents, especially the raiser. Against a loose raiser and/or weak postflop player & a loose cold caller, I'll call the raise or maybe even 3-bet if I'm feeling kooky. If I respect the raiser I'll usually muck. If I know that the coldcaller would fold unless he had AQs or better, I'll muck. Against two unknowns....meh, depends on my mood, but usually call.

[sthief09]

1 and 2 depend on who came in already. if everyone folded I'd limp or raise in 1 and raise in 2. 3 I'd fold. 4 depends on the open raiser. if he's a typical low limit player who doesn't understand position, I'd fold. if he's aggressive and not particularly good, I'd call or 3-bet

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

For future reference, table positions:

SB
BB
UTG
UTG+1
UTG+2
MP1
MP2
MP3
CO
Button

[Willluck]

hey thanx for not being a dick about it

[DeeJ]

Q#1 : if the flop is avg 5 players, I limp. If it's 3, I fold. If it's 4, it's a 50/50 depending on players behind me.

Q#2: raise (4 or 5 players to flop) fold (3 players)

Q#3: assuming others have limped, I limp too.

Q#4: call

[Rudbaeck]

Call, fold, call, call.

[Willluck]

your raising with 66 is okay but what are you looking to do, steal the blinds in most cases you will get one bb caller, where you are racing and with the rake in 2/4 you are losing money. the kj raise isn't good either sure you steal the blinds and it works most of the time but when you get called by say the button or just the person on your left you are trapped and dominated (after 20 times you will pretty much lose money). with some people go right ahead. But it sets you up to lose a lot of money.

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
your raising with 66 is okay but what are you looking to do, steal the blinds in most cases you will get one bb caller, where you are racing and with the rake in 2/4 you are losing money.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, plays that lose money aren't okay. Second, this play doesn't lose money. You want to play medium pairs against many callers (in which case you will most often hit or set or fold) or only 1 or 2 (in which case your hand has showdown value and your raise gives you some folding equity).

[ QUOTE ]
..the kj raise isn't good either sure you steal the blinds and it works most of the time but when you get called by say the button or just the person on your left you are trapped and dominated (after 20 times you will pretty much lose money).

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, there are some problems with your logic here. If you stole the blinds most of the times with this play then it would be absurd not to make it. You could simply check/fold the flop whenever called and still turn a profit.

But the point is you won't steal the blinds with this play most of the time, and you don't need to to make it profitable. KJo is a difficult hand to play, and you wouldn't be giving up much by folding it first in from MP1, but under the right circumstances open raising with it is definitely not a losing proposition.

/mc

[Willluck]

This is true, but most players are somewhat observant and notice an EP PF raiser who checks and folds many flops. (plus you only set 10% of the time and they are not always the nuts). 9 times you: lose at least 2 sb
1 time you: win an average pot of 7.5 bb.
9 times * 2 sb = 9 bbs
1 time * 7.5 bbs = 7.5 bbs
9 bbs-7.5 bbs = 1.5 bbs lost

1.5 bbs lost

how do you like them apples.

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]
how do you like them apples.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apart from not really knowing what you're talking about, I like them fine.

If you're going to use math to analyze a situation you need to set it up clearly so that people can agree/disagree with your assumptions. Are you talking about 66 here or JK or have you moved on to some other hand?

/mc

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
your raising with 66 is okay but what are you looking to do, steal the blinds in most cases you will get one bb caller, where you are racing and with the rake in 2/4 you are losing money. the kj raise isn't good either sure you steal the blinds and it works most of the time but when you get called by say the button or just the person on your left you are trapped and dominated (after 20 times you will pretty much lose money). with some people go right ahead. But it sets you up to lose a lot of money.

[/ QUOTE ]


when you limp, you usually have to have the best hand by showdown to win. when you raise, you often win the pot by just betting the flop and maybe the turn

[sfer]

Seriously, what's your problem?

[sthief09]

you're clueless and unwilling to change. just go away

[BottlesOf]

LANSING! WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!