fimbulwinter
01-16-2005, 06:36 AM
First off, a lot of you out there won't get much out of this hand, but there are some who need to read it. I've noticed that a large portion of the hands posted here have, of late, become "could i have gotten away from this?", "I obviously made the right play and got sucked out on, what can i do to prevent this?" and "look at this insane, once in a lifetime decision!"
While some of these hands have some meat to them, the real problem comes when people post hands where there are massive technical mistakes and -EV bets being made which turn the bad players we're all used to playing against into people who can't make a mistake. These hands are often overlooked or given short responses because they are so rudimentary for people who have played thousands of hands, but such hands are important because we play so many of them and making even minor mistakes, since they comes up so often, hurts majorly long-term.
that said, here's a very boring hand that I played tonight at a live 3/5 200NL table that normally I would not post as it's very very ABC and somewhat uninteresting. No fancy lines or tricky "just to mix it up" moves, like >80% of the hands I play against opponents I feel are worse than me. If you don't like my line, i'd love to hear, but I do contend that this is the standard play.
Two opponents here just came from a 10/20 limit game and are stuck. the game is somewhat small to them and they're loose, straightforward, macho, weak players. these are the bread and butter NL fish.
I'm in MP with ~350 and A/images/graemlins/club.gifK/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG limps, folded to me, I make it 15 (standard bring in for table) CO (280ish) and Button (150ish) call, blinds fold, UTG folds.
Ok, I'm out of position here and probably have at least some of these guy's outs dominated. I'm not worried about a big PP here and I know that they'll let me know if they flop a set. If the flop comes down bad for me (QJ8, 79T), I will give up or play only the smallest of pots. I know i can't convince them I have an overpair no matter what I do.
Flop(~55):
A/images/graemlins/spade.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif
I bet 50, CO calls (215 left behind now), Button folds
This is a draw-heavy board, so I'm protecting my hand. If he has an ace, I've most certainly got him crushed, but more likely would be an 8 trying to spike a second pair or two clubs or a straight draw. if draws complete on the turn, I'm slowing down, which will also probably slow him down if he has a dominated ace, which is OK by me.
Turn(~155):
Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
I bet 120, he calls (95 left behind now)
Now I am almost positive I am ahead and now i am tied to the pot. I gave him terrible odds to try and complete his draw but still made the bet small enough that he will probably continue chasing a flush or straight and will call with a dominated ace, even at this usurious price. If he just got ahead with AQ, so be it.
River(~395):
6/images/graemlins/heart.gif
At this point my hand is defined and his could still be a myriad of things. The pot is gigantic in relationship to our stacks and none of the draws got there. If i put him in, he calls when I'm beat and folds when I'm not. If he's got a 6, ni han. AQ i'm ok with too. might as well let him bluff away what's left.
I check, he pushes, i call.
He has JT/images/graemlins/club.gif and rebuys.
This is one of the most normal, run-of-the-mill hands we all play. most boards aren't drawless, most opponents aren't smart, tricky and agressive and most boards contain scarecards when you're holding a one-pair hand. If i was deeper and against better opposition, This hand would be one that warranted discussion, but here it's just simple. When you're playing the fish, you will probably pay them off when their T6o turns two pair, but they will pay you off enough long-term in playing those draws to make being aggro with good hands very worthwile. One of your biggest overlays is the fact that you play tighter than your opponents, so be willing to back the few times you do enter a pot with agression. Simple poker led to a big pot taken from a hand that arguably should not have been played in the first place. Take home message is: Don't get tricky, detail-obsessed, scared unless there's a reason.
Remember, poker is eeeeeeasy.
fim
While some of these hands have some meat to them, the real problem comes when people post hands where there are massive technical mistakes and -EV bets being made which turn the bad players we're all used to playing against into people who can't make a mistake. These hands are often overlooked or given short responses because they are so rudimentary for people who have played thousands of hands, but such hands are important because we play so many of them and making even minor mistakes, since they comes up so often, hurts majorly long-term.
that said, here's a very boring hand that I played tonight at a live 3/5 200NL table that normally I would not post as it's very very ABC and somewhat uninteresting. No fancy lines or tricky "just to mix it up" moves, like >80% of the hands I play against opponents I feel are worse than me. If you don't like my line, i'd love to hear, but I do contend that this is the standard play.
Two opponents here just came from a 10/20 limit game and are stuck. the game is somewhat small to them and they're loose, straightforward, macho, weak players. these are the bread and butter NL fish.
I'm in MP with ~350 and A/images/graemlins/club.gifK/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG limps, folded to me, I make it 15 (standard bring in for table) CO (280ish) and Button (150ish) call, blinds fold, UTG folds.
Ok, I'm out of position here and probably have at least some of these guy's outs dominated. I'm not worried about a big PP here and I know that they'll let me know if they flop a set. If the flop comes down bad for me (QJ8, 79T), I will give up or play only the smallest of pots. I know i can't convince them I have an overpair no matter what I do.
Flop(~55):
A/images/graemlins/spade.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif
I bet 50, CO calls (215 left behind now), Button folds
This is a draw-heavy board, so I'm protecting my hand. If he has an ace, I've most certainly got him crushed, but more likely would be an 8 trying to spike a second pair or two clubs or a straight draw. if draws complete on the turn, I'm slowing down, which will also probably slow him down if he has a dominated ace, which is OK by me.
Turn(~155):
Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
I bet 120, he calls (95 left behind now)
Now I am almost positive I am ahead and now i am tied to the pot. I gave him terrible odds to try and complete his draw but still made the bet small enough that he will probably continue chasing a flush or straight and will call with a dominated ace, even at this usurious price. If he just got ahead with AQ, so be it.
River(~395):
6/images/graemlins/heart.gif
At this point my hand is defined and his could still be a myriad of things. The pot is gigantic in relationship to our stacks and none of the draws got there. If i put him in, he calls when I'm beat and folds when I'm not. If he's got a 6, ni han. AQ i'm ok with too. might as well let him bluff away what's left.
I check, he pushes, i call.
He has JT/images/graemlins/club.gif and rebuys.
This is one of the most normal, run-of-the-mill hands we all play. most boards aren't drawless, most opponents aren't smart, tricky and agressive and most boards contain scarecards when you're holding a one-pair hand. If i was deeper and against better opposition, This hand would be one that warranted discussion, but here it's just simple. When you're playing the fish, you will probably pay them off when their T6o turns two pair, but they will pay you off enough long-term in playing those draws to make being aggro with good hands very worthwile. One of your biggest overlays is the fact that you play tighter than your opponents, so be willing to back the few times you do enter a pot with agression. Simple poker led to a big pot taken from a hand that arguably should not have been played in the first place. Take home message is: Don't get tricky, detail-obsessed, scared unless there's a reason.
Remember, poker is eeeeeeasy.
fim