3rd nut flush turns me into a nut

[Harv72b]

Reads: CO is a LAG on tilt who just reloaded. Button is a fishy kind of LAG who will bet aggressively with any made hand. UTG is LP-A, MP3 is LP-P.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO (poster) raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, CO calls.

River: (25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 31 BB

Bleh. Rip away.

Before you do, keep in mind the reads. I'm convinced on the turn that CO would raise with a single high club, and Button would 3-bet with any made flush or possibly straight. Even with that read, do you take the same (or a similar) line as me?

[adamstewart]

Looks good to me - especially given your reads.

I cap the turn (villains could be betting the crap out of a straight).

River play looks good to me.

If you're posting this because you lost the hand - meh, bad luck.

Adam

[GrekeHaus]

Anybody else fold this preflop, or am I being overly tight? You're getting tremendous pot odds, but damn that hand sucks. By calling with this, you're basically betting on the flush since hitting either the Q or the 2 is unlikely to hold up in such a large multi-way pot.

Given your read, you should definitely cap the turn. You still have one out to beat a higher flush. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody else fold this preflop, or am I being overly tight? You're getting tremendous pot odds, but damn that hand sucks. By calling with this, you're basically betting on the flush since hitting either the Q or the 2 is unlikely to hold up in such a large multi-way pot.

Given your read, you should definitely cap the turn. You still have one out to beat a higher flush. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You're playing way too tight, this is an easy call pre-flop.

I don't blame you for playing it the way you did although I think I woulda check/called on the river. Betting isn't a bad play, though.

[GrekeHaus]

[ QUOTE ]

You're playing way too tight, this is an easy call pre-flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is an easy call? What would be a difficult call? I can't really imagine even contemplating a call with a hand much worse than this. Do you call something like J2s in this situation? 85s? 84s?

[Harv72b]

I wasn't too sure about the preflop call, either (actually, the only street I feel fairly good about was the flop). I don't normally call the raise with this hand, but I did in this case because:

-5 other people had already committed money to the pot, so assuming none of the EP opponents fold or limp/reraise, I'm getting 11:1 to call. I think that's the odds of flopping a flush draw...not really sure, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
-I don't take CO's PFR's that seriously normally (53/12 in 150+ hands), and with the way he had been playing lately I completely shrugged it off. Basically, I felt like my chances were the same as if I'd just checked through on an unraised pot, except that the pot odds would be high enough to keep opponents in if I did hit my flush (or something kooky like 2 pair or trips or what have you).

I'm not saying it was an easy call or even a good one (I don't honestly know--that's why I'm asking /images/graemlins/wink.gif ), but that's what I was thinking at the time.

[adamstewart]

Since I've been "re-building my game" in the last while, I've tightened up from the blinds. (In a raised pot, I used to always call any two suited from the big blind).

Getting 11:1 for your money here, though, is an easy call. For one small bet, why not take a look at the flop? If you don't like it, fold.

Adam

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]
Reads: CO is a LAG on tilt who just reloaded. Button is a fishy kind of LAG who will bet aggressively with any made hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think that based on these reads that there is a good chance button/co are both on straights (probably) or worse flushes?

Against unkowns I agree with the previous comments about slowing down on the river, but come on, If he'll "bet aggressively with any made hand" then I think you can reraise the river. Flush over flush doesn't happen that often. I think reraising the river +EV based on these reads.

edit: after noticing that you're getting an overcall from CO calling seems better, but he'll call the reraise often enough. Also, don't you think there's a good chance laggy button will cap with a worse hand?

-Craig

[bicyclekick]

It's ok when you're not runnign well to not play these hands...and novices should probably stay away, but if you are a good postflop player you should be playing them...12-1 is plenty for a suited hand.

76o would be a more difficult hand to call.

It becomes a lot closer to -ev at the lower limits because the rake is a lot higher, so if you're not playing them, dont sweat it, it's not killing your winrate.

[Harv72b]

That's probably the biggest thing that bothered me after the hand. I led out every street like I was convinced that I was ahead of Button, but then I just called the raises like I was afraid I was beat. It seems like I should be picking one line or the other, and not trying to straddle the fence like I did.

Flush over flush did happen here, incidentally:

<font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 2c Qc (flush, queen high).
CO has Js Ac (straight, jack high).
Button has Jc 3c (flush, jack high).
Outcome: Hero wins 31 BB. </font>

[Rudbaeck]

I like it on every street. Seems like a perfect balance between ramming and going for overcalls.

The river bet has got to be superior to a check/call. CO getting to call both has got to make up for the times when you are behind. Or?