99 from BB, interesting decision on 3 streets.

[partygirluk]

Hi guys, I thought this was a very interesting hand.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks.

River: (4.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

I don't datamine and this was one of my first hands (I posted in CO-1 and this is my first BB) so no reads sorry. The average flop % at the table was pretty high though.

Comments/questions on the streets.

i) Preflop is it worth raising? With 2 opponents they rate to hold 3-4 overcards plenty of the time, so I won't like many flops, and am out of position.

ii) Flop. On the flop as PFR I am going to bet out almost regardless. Well I raised PF and two people called my flop bet, so I figure one (at least) of them must have an Ace.

iii) Thus I plan to check the turn, representing JJ-KK, and then get in a C/R. I realise KJ is possible, but lets not get scared of monsters. If I get 3 bet, I probably call down. I am surprised to see the turn checked through.

iv) The river is scary. However, the action thus far is inconsistent with either of them holding a King. The board must be scary to the opponents too. I think betting out is better as a hand like QJ probably calls - but might not bet. From there point of view I could very easily have KK, so if I get raised, I can safely fold.

[adamstewart]

Preflop: standard

Flop: You have to bet out. From the perspective of the villains, when a preflop raiser checks the flop when an ace falls, I always get suspicious. (I know it's not like you hit a pair of aces here, but this is how the villains may see it). Bet out, and hopefully, someone will an Ace will chase you down, or even raise you.


On the turn:

With no reads and only two opponents (who may be a little afraid of your preflop raise), I don't think the check-raise will work as often as you'd like.

The pot is fairly small, so betting out on the turn still protects your hand against many draws (especially gutshots /images/graemlins/crazy.gif).


River: I'd bet out again. Hard to tell whether I'd be able to fold to a raise, though.

Hmmm.... perhaps trying to "induce a bluff" might be fun here. If you're hehind and they bluff, you gain. If you're behind, you lose as little as you possible.


Just my thoughts...
Adam

[krishanleong]

Preflop raise, I can go either way. Flop is good. Not betting the turn is just FPS at it's worst. Bet and hope you get raised so you can 3-bet. The river would be completely different if you had bet the turn. But as you played it, I think check call is better than bet-fold.

Krishan

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
But as you played it, I think check call is better than bet-fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

After the turn gets checked through, then hero checks the rier, Hero MUST call the river.

Adam

[krishanleong]

Isn't that what I said?

Krishan

[partygirluk]

I am wondering why you think c/r the turn is so bad. I very very very rarely slowplay, but this seemed like an ideal spot.

[adamstewart]

S[/i]hit ya,...sorry.

I read your post too quickly and thought you advised Hero to "Check-fold."

I'm stupid.

Adam

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I am wondering why you think c/r the turn is so bad. I very very very rarely slowplay, but this seemed like an ideal spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if you're asking me, but I posted my rationale in my first response.

Adam

[krishanleong]

Anyone with a K, J, diamonds will take a free card. But they will also all call a bet. Really only a very strong hand is going to bet this turn. Something like AJ or QT. But most of the time if you bet, they will raise allowing you to 3-bet. So you still come out way ahead.

So the reasons are mostly because there are a ton of draw that will take free cards that you want to make pay. And to a lesser extent a strong hand (that you beat) may raise allowing you to 3-bet.

I also advocate slowplaying more than 90% of the SS posters. And I think this is a terrible spot to slowplay.

Krishan

[partygirluk]

88 /images/graemlins/mad.gif

In retrospect I should bet the turn. Perhaps not so much because I am scared of it getting checked through, but because it is very possible that someone has Ax two pair and I can get the third bet in.

And on this actual hand the guy with 88 will probably call, which I want him to.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
I am wondering why you think c/r the turn is so bad. I very very very rarely slowplay, but this seemed like an ideal spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slowplays are good when villain is very unlikely to make a hand that beats yours, but is fairly likely to make a second best hand he likes.

Here people are actually decently likely to make straights. Bet the turn.

[partygirluk]

I was not trying to slowplay. I was trying to C/R - that is different.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
I was not trying to slowplay. I was trying to C/R - that is different.

[/ QUOTE ]

C/R only beats betting out if UTG is the one doing the bet. If you played this hand a million times I think betting the turn is the most profitable play.

[Hoi Polloi]

IMHO

1. No reason to expect anyone to bet the turn. No one has made any kind of play on you.

2. Board becomes very coordinated on the turn. You have to bet out to make the draws pay.