middle pair; what to do after taking a free card?

[Aces McGee]

Party 3/6

UTG limps. He's 75/0 after about 30 hands.
CO-1 limps. New to the table, unknown.
I limp in the CO with Q /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Button limps. He's a calling station.
SB completes. My read is that he's bad, but I don't have a specific reason why.
BB checks. I have no read on him.

6 to the flop:

K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

checked to UTG who bets. CO-1 folds, I raise. Only the SB and UTG call.

3 to the turn:

6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checked to me and I check it through.

3 to the river:

4 /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Checked to me. Should I bet it? I had planned on calling a bet, right or wrong.

Thanks in advance.

-McGee

[CPA]

I think I would have bet the turn, then checked the river.

Is there a reason for not doing this??

[Nick C]

I would check behind on the river, thinking that there's a really good chance UTG has me beat with a weak king (that he won't fold) but was scared by my flop raise.

[Aces McGee]

Well, because part of the reason I raised the flop was to see a free river.

-McGee

[CPA]

I was referring to the section in SSH (Raising for a free card) where it advises to bet the turn and take a free showdown. Betting "protects your hand" and it costs you the same amount....plus you might get lucky and catch a good card, etc. etc.

The reason I am posting this is if I am misapplying the section, I want to know.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see three villians left in the hand. Never mind, don't mind me.

[Aces McGee]

Well, it's certainly possible that I'm the one misapplying it, not you.

-McGee

[MCS]

Yes, I'd bet the river. Anyone with a king should have realized you don't have one when you check the turn. This is also why you should bet the turn (because otherwise you let people bluff the river, though now that I think about it, they obviously didn't decide to do that in THIS hand, so never mind).

[Aces McGee]

I went back and looked at SSHE this morning. The hand you're referring to, I think, is pocket tens on a Q9x board. While this hand is slightly different, I think it's close enough that a turn bet is warranted. Nice catch.

Anyway, I ended up checking the river through. UTG had QTo, SB had 99, and my hand was good.

My original question on this hand was what to do when you take the free card with a weaker "made hand" and they check to you on the river, anyway. But since betting the turn is usually correct, I won't worry about it.

Thanks for responses.

-McGee

[GrekeHaus]

I'd have bet the turn and checked the river for the same reasons as previously stated. But after checking the turn and having it checked to you on the river, your Q is likely good. A K would have bet here. You should bet for value here.

[SamIAm]

[ QUOTE ]
I would check behind on the river, thinking that there's a really good chance UTG has me beat with a weak king (that he won't fold) but was scared by my flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]No way. I don't think a king stays scared through both the turn AND the river. If it's checked to me on the river, I'd bet it. Plus, it'd be too much for the guy check-through the turn and then go for the check-raise on the river.

I think I'd still take the free card, although MCS's point about inducing bluffs on the river is legit. I think i'd take the turn free card, and then call if it's bet or bet if it's checked.
-Sam

[admiralfluff]

I agree with this, but if you had a weak king, I think checking the turn would be better. A hand like this is in the same section of SSH, A2 maybe? Don't remember exactly, but sometimes it is correct to take the free card, especially against a possibly good opponent, when you would be much less inclined to fold to a raise.

In this situation I think that would mostly depend on UTG's postflop play though.

[StellarWind]

I wouldn't dream of checking the turn. You correctly played this flop because you might have the best hand. Otherwise you have to fold the flop because the pot is not big enough to support you as a pure draw. So be consistent and protect your made hand by betting the turn.

If someone has a bad king you are going to lose another BB unless you improve. Betting and taking the free showdown loses that bet on the turn. Taking the free card forces you to call the river and lose that same bet.

What's the difference? Hands like J9 or A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif can be effectively attacked on the turn. They fold their outs or they pay. You benefit either way. But if you wait until the river they probably will not pay. You've given them a free look at the river when you could have charged them.

[mtdoak]

I think you can take the free SD here. he's going to call with AQ or any King.