Fun With KK

[The Dude]

Party Poker 5-10, 6-max. SB in this hand is a 68/3/2+'er.

Preflop:
The Dude open raises on the button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SBs) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Checked to The Dude who bets, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4 BBs) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif
SB checks, Dude bets, SB calls.

River: (6 BBs) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif
SB bets, Dude raises, intending to call a 3-bet...

Comments?

[Jonny]

I'd play it the exact same. Nice hand. Most likely he spiked 2 pair on the river. Not to mention is is a LAG. I wouldn't fear the straight here. If he has it, so be it. I think raising is +EV.

[Alobar]

I think I just call. As loose as he is I could easily see him holding a 7. And the fact that you have to pay off a 3 bet means you lose two when you lose and win 1 when you win.

[ctv1116]

I flat call. Remember, you win one extra bet or you lose two. If he's bluffing you win zero extra bets.

[Jonny]

mabye a call is in order, I'm not so sure.

But then again my AF is 3.0... I could be leaking some I think.

[sinfulslick18]

just call the raise on river. Risky business if he has the seven

-sinful

[gonores]

Please tell me you aren't really questioning your river raise.

[stonecold]

Nevermind im just not awaken yet lol

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Please tell me you aren't really questioning your river raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, not at all. In fact, I was wondering if I should be planning on capping villian's 3-bet. I'm quite surprised to see everybody saying call only.

[Jonny]

I myself would most likely 3-bet it. Again, i am a little more agressive than most posters on here.

EDIT: I'd raise, not 3-bet, as it is impossible to 3-bet. I doubt I'd cap though. This guy is so loose he could have anything.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]

No, not at all. In fact, I was wondering if I should be planning on capping villian's 3-bet. I'm quite surprised to see everybody saying call only.

[/ QUOTE ]WHY THE HECK DO YOU WANT TO CAP??/ I WOULD ALWAYS RAISE HERE, BUT A 3BET IS GONNA MEAN A 7 THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME....

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please tell me you aren't really questioning your river raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, not at all. In fact, I was wondering if I should be planning on capping villian's 3-bet. I'm quite surprised to see everybody saying call only.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think capping is a mistake of gigantic proportions

[Jonny]

agreed, capping is disasterous.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
WHY THE HECK DO YOU WANT TO CAP??

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think capping is a mistake of gigantic proportions

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
agreed, capping is disasterous

[/ QUOTE ]
You guys suck, capping is fun. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MAxx]

My natural play would lead me to raise and call 3-bet.

However, posters make a good point about when you are ahead you get one extra and when behind you lose 2 extra. This a good point... if you assume half the time villain leads this river he has a seven.

However if you estimate that 30% of the time he has a 7 and 70% of the time he has some other bullshit... then it is a mandatory raise everytime. This assumes no bluffing, he either calls or raises.

So I think it is a function of how retarded you think your opponent is. Normal opponents get the flat call treatment and the 70% ers get popped.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Normal opponents get the flat call treatment and the 70% ers get popped.

[/ QUOTE ]
Solid opponents I'm more likely to raise as well, since my action leading up to the river makes it pretty clear I don't have a 7.

[cnfuzzd]

does someone who really plays 68% of their hands fold to a raise on the river? I think the "win-one, lose-2" argument might be a touch flawed.

peace

john nickle

[Scotch78]

jjis lost of fujn, I like this pos

[MAxx]

that's a pretty good point Dude about them not putting you on a 7

i'm also thinking that a 7 would c/r river a substancial amount of the time, so that may lessen the likelyhood that a lead is a 7.

the more i think about what you said, and reguessing about % of time villain has a 7 and leads..... i am almost convinced that a raise is mandatory here.

[Alobar]

you are forgetting that someone who sees 68% of the flops, isnt the type of player that puts you on a hand, he just plays his cards.

I also dont think a 7 c/r most of the time, maybe he is afraid you will checkbehind, maybe he plays straight forward and doesnt ever checkraise.

If I had a 7, I would definately bet it into the dude

[DrGutshot]

just call dude, if you get 3bet you'll be pissed and go on semitilt whether you admit it or not.

this guy's just playing his cards, and a 7 will very rarely c/r the river, usually bet out.

-DrG

[cnfuzzd]

the dude does not get pissed. The dude abides, man. the dude abides.

Seriously though, i think he could just as likely be playing a smaller set, or even two pair, the same way as he would a seven. Also, he is very likely to fold to the raise so its an even money propisition. Considering that you beat the vast magority of hands we can put him on, i like the raise. I dont know if i would make it, but i think it offers the highest EV.

peace

john nickle

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
if you get 3bet you'll be pissed and go on semitilt whether you admit it or not.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, this actually made me laugh.

[Schneids]

When I make river bets or raises I occasionally have to hold my breath and grit my teeth. In this hand, raising the river is a reflex.

Anyone that thinks calling is a legit option here needs a reminder it's not Halloween. There are no monsters to be afraid of.