JQs in SB, always complicated

[arkady]

There are 100s of way to play that differentely, what lines would u guys take. Btw, i dont wanna hear anything about the PF call, because its right.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.

River: (15 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB

[Swills]

I'd bet the turn. By the looks of that flop, no one is going anywhere. So betting into the turn feels right to me. Other than that, I like what I see.

[wuarhg]

I feel like just checking the flop and getting as much money as I can in the pot on the flop. Sure you can bet and let UTG+1 clean up some of your outs.

Anyway, I would check-raise the flop and bet the turn if everyone just called the flop. Turn was bad, hate it when it gets checked through like that.

[arkady]

what would you do if it came back 2 more to you on the flop - presuming you check.

[arkady]

i guess no matter what kind of action on the flop, everyone might be afraid of a scare card

[thrillhouse7]

I'm not making a suggestion; just asking a question. Why not checkraise UTG+1 for value

[me454555]

C/r the flop then cap. Calling makes you look like your on a flush draw and capping will confuse the hell outta people. W/that many callers, your sure to have some +EV

[wuarhg]

[ QUOTE ]
what would you do if it came back 2 more to you on the flop - presuming you check.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there are more than 2 others in the pot and it's 2 back to me I would cap it. It's fun to cap flushdraws!

[Joe Tall]

Why did you bet into the PFR? Check this flop.

Go Pats!
Joe Tall

[bisonbison]

nice hand.

edit: joe is right. c/r flop.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you bet into the PFR? Check this flop.

Go Pats!


[/ QUOTE ]

You beat me to it...except for the Go xxxx! part.

[Joe Tall]

what would you do if it came back 2 more to you on the flop - presuming you check.

You call.

Go Pats!
-Joe Tall

[JJH3984]

why not threebet preflop?

[Joe Tall]

why not threebet preflop?

Because he likes money.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[wuarhg]

Joe,

Why won't you 3-bet the flop if it's 2 back to you with 3 players? Are you thinking that maybe UTG+1 or any of them will 3-bet it for you? Or is 3-betting the flop with a flushdraw out of position just stupid?

[thirddan]

the other poster asked about preflop...

[JJH3984]

no give me a real reason why reraising with a drawing hand like QJc isn't +EV against 6 people? Isn't this just like raising with big suited cards in a loose passive game? Why not?

[wuarhg]

[ QUOTE ]
the other poster asked about preflop...

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed he did but I was referring to this:

[ QUOTE ]
what would you do if it came back 2 more to you on the flop - presuming you check.

You call.

Go Pats!
-Joe Tall

[/ QUOTE ]

[thirddan]

QJ isn't a great hand against a preflop raiser, you could be dominated by AQ or against an overpair...also if you 3bet you open it up for a cap and you really don't want to be putting 4 bets in preflop with a hand like QJ when you could see the flop for only two bets. each bet you put in preflop adds more to the total you must win for the preflop call to be worth it, ie your implied odds are reduced by each bet you must put in preflop...

[arkady]

the primary motivation for that was to clean out my queens and jacks, in reality his raise will also cut down the calls I need to make my FD profitable. So I guess I was torn and decided to bet out...

I dont typically do that btw.

[arkady]

capping and pushing people out...i dunno, sounds like a waste

[Joe Tall]

Why won't you 3-bet the flop if it's 2 back to you with 3 players? Are you thinking that maybe UTG+1 or any of them will 3-bet it for you?

You want the PFR to 3-bet and everyone call so you can cap for value.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[JinX11]

Personally, I check-raise the flop just about every time.

Even with the show of strength from everyone on the flop, I might bet this turn - can't imagine everyone going away from 1 bet on the turn; getting it checked through must make you frown. River g00t!

[BottlesOf]

Yea, c/r the flop, lead the turn.

[BottlesOf]

That depends on how many opponents you have and the strength of your draw (how likely it is to come through by the river and how often you're good when you hit it). In this case, I can't imagine not wanting to go all in if your opponents all agreed.

[Joe Tall]

no give me a real reason why reraising with a drawing hand like QJc isn't +EV against 6 people? Isn't this just like raising with big suited cards in a loose passive game? Why not?

1. We are out of position w/a hand that is very likely dominated.

2. QJs isn't enough to be gaining overlay by 3-betting.

3. It could be capped by the PFR.

Again, welcome,
Joe Tall

[Tosh]

Well with 20+ replies I hope people have told you to check, and then raise, the flop. If not I am doing so now, I really don't get the bet.

[Jonny]

Not to mention that someone else could have a higher flush draw. Your Q and J outs are essentially nil IMO. I would bet the turn though for sure.

[arkady]

yup, good thing this is not my normal line. best be sticking to the methodology that worked before.