Hey im just lurking, got a couple ????

[zaxx19]

When you guys talk about stt do you automatically mean 10 person??

Which sites are considered the best for Stt??

How important are hand histories and opponent notes to becoming a winning Stt player?

Ive played 40 or so (i understand thats a small sample) and have an ROI @ like 31% for 5 and 10 dollar tables what are the implications of moving to 20$>>?? When should you consider moving(im not at the moment)?

What bankroll to entry ratio is optimal for STT play??

What is the expected ROI fall off for an inexperienced multi tablier to start multi tabling??

When do you know you are ready to Multi tabling??

Thanks for any input as Im very new to Stt but am pretty sure Im better at them than MTT or ringames(im horrible lol)...is that odd??

[The Yugoslavian]

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When you guys talk about stt do you automatically mean 10 person??


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Yes

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Which sites are considered the best for Stt??


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The *general* consensus is Party Poker as the rapid blinds and fishy play make for the best $/hr. However, the starting chip count is small at the lower buyins and many players like to play Stars or other sites where the starting chip count and slower blinds allows for more play per SNG.

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How important are hand histories and opponent notes to becoming a winning Stt player?


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Going over your hand histories is important. Taking notes is a good idea but not of too much use until the higher buyins ($55+) as so many play the lower SNGs that you won't see the same players too much.

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Ive played 40 or so (i understand thats a small sample) and have an ROI @ like 31% for 5 and 10 dollar tables what are the implications of moving to 20$>>?? When should you consider moving(im not at the moment)?


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Yeah, your stats aren't significant at all. That being said, if you feel you're outplaying the table and have a good bankroll, moving up to the $22s is not a bad idea.

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What bankroll to entry ratio is optimal for STT play??


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Generally at least 30 buyins -- however, having 50 is more ideal and will make swings easier to deal with for some people. (If you can reload, then it doesn't much matter what your bankroll is -- just whether or not you can beat the buyin for +$EV or not)

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What is the expected ROI fall off for an inexperienced multi tablier to start multi tabling??


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Depends so much on the person. There definitely will be a decrease -- but it is hard to say how much. Some people have too much trouble playing more than one or two SNGs and so their ROI could be negative, while others can 8 table with a relatively minimal ROI hit.

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When do you know you are ready to Multi tabling??


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When you feel like you're still playing close to optimal after adding tables. It may take quite a few multi table sessions to get used to it. The general advice is to move up gradually (don't go from 1 to 8 right away).

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Thanks for any input as Im very new to Stt but am pretty sure Im better at them than MTT or ringames(im horrible lol)...is that odd??

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Yeah, you post a ton in MTT so I'd guess you can adjust fairly quickly to STTs. Most likely you're already a +$EV player in the lower buyins. There is an increase in skill each time you move up a level but it seems to be much more from $33 to $55 and up.

Yugoslav

[zaxx19]

Very helpful thanx.

Please disregard the idiocy of my early MTT posts...I was a loudmouth newbie and had a decent run winning a few in a row and thought I was hotshit...typical I guess of new posters.

[The Yugoslavian]

Meh. I've seen you get dished on in the MTT forum but also dish it out a bit. Anything on the internet has to be taken with a grain of salt -- whether you're the hotshot or the one busting the hot shot.

FWIW I am neither a buster or a hotshot -- I'm not even technically Yugoslavian /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yugoslav

[The Yugoslavian]

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FWIW I am neither a buster or a hotshot -- I'm not even technically Yugoslavian /images/graemlins/wink.gif.


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Ack, on second thought, even saying that probably makes me guilty of being both a buster and a hotshot, /images/graemlins/shocked.gif. Oh well, at least I have enough self-assessment ability to know I'm not Desdia, /images/graemlins/cool.gif.

Yugoslav

[citanul]

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When you guys talk about stt do you automatically mean 10 person??

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No, this is why when asking about a hand, or strategy, it is common to post how many handed and at what site the stt took/takes place.

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Which sites are considered the best for Stt??

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It depends. Party's are most frequently run, have the worst play, are very brute force scientific beatable. Stars has a slower structure, allowing for more "skillful" play. Etc.

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How important are hand histories and opponent notes to becoming a winning Stt player?

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Decently

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Ive played 40 or so (i understand thats a small sample) and have an ROI @ like 31% for 5 and 10 dollar tables what are the implications of moving to 20$>>?? When should you consider moving(im not at the moment)?

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The $5 results are basically meaningless in all ways. The $10 results are more meaningful towards your moving up, but you should probably play more, unless you don't actually care that much about being "sure you can beat the game." Move up when you are comfortable with it, if you have the bankroll. See the SNG faq for more on this stuff.

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What bankroll to entry ratio is optimal for STT play??

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At this point I'm really beginning to wonder why the hell you need more than one "?" after every one of your questions. Find the SNG FAQ. Links to it have been reposted of late, by lorinda, as well as others. Anywhere between 20-100 has been quoted as the "optimal" number of buyins. The recent thread involving Daliman's GAMBOOOOLING seems to say that if you don't mind having a decent RoR, you can play with less, and have a very similar/higher ROI.

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What is the expected ROI fall off for an inexperienced multi tablier to start multi tabling??

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Depends on you, doesn't it?

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When do you know you are ready to Multi tabling??

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When the answer to the question immediately prior to this one has a small answer. Like, one that improves your hourly rate, instead of decreasing it.

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Thanks for any input as Im very new to Stt but am pretty sure Im better at them than MTT or ringames(im horrible lol)...is that odd??

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No, it's not entirely odd. There is a "science" to beating specifically the Party sngs, that isn't entirely correlated to poker "skill."

Good luck.

citanul

[Cry Me A River]

Yes, yes, read the FAQ! There's lots of key info there.

I also transitioned, relatively recently (couple months), from MTT's to SNG's. Prior to spending quite a while in MTT's I had been a very mediocre SNG player. MTT's improved my SNG game, vastly. You should be able to make the switch pretty easily as long as you recognise the big, big differences in MTT and SNG and adjust accordingly.

You probably know a lot of the following already, but it's worth stating anyway...

You generally play MTT's with a pretty gradual increase in agression, starting out pretty tight and eventually becoming quite aggressive. However, due to the deeper stacks and slower blind structures you can still play a lot of speculative hands (suited connectors, suited aces and such) early in MTT's, particularly against a loose field where the implied odds are huge with players who'll go all-in at the drop of a hat.

In SNG's you start out rock hard, tight, tight, tight (there is a minority disagreement here, but the consensus is you play super-tight). If you do manage to build a stack early, you can obviously open up a little but you first goal is to get to the bubble with as intact a stack as possible.

On the bubble you do a complete 180 and you're basically into maniac mode where you pretty much stay for the duration. There's some finesse to this and IMHO this is where a lot of the learning curve lies (ie: when to push with any two, when to tighten up again, who to push against, when to call...)

MTT's really helped me because the smoother build in aggression felt much more "natural". I had a lot of problems, originally, going from 0 to 60 as soon as the fifth (or occaisionally the fourth) player busted out. However, after playing a bunch of MTT's it was a lot easier to turn it on and off, even though you're skipping the middle part of the tournament. In particular, MTT's can give you lots of experience in bullying, which you never really get in SNG's because there aren't enough chips in play but that's more or less the attitude you need to have on the bubble, even when you're the short stack. Being able to bully with the short stack is pretty key in SNG's (though you usually won't stay short stacked for long if you do it well)

The key concept in low buy-in SNG's is that you're playing against players who play the game in reverse - They start out playing way too loose and are prone to getting knocked out early. Then they tighten right up and try to squeak into the money. SNG startegy seeks to exploit both those errors, by outlasting them in the mostly meaningless first half of the SNG, and then steamrolling them once the game gets serious...

As far as moving up, do it when you feel comfortable, both with your game and your bankroll. I've played 10's, 20's and 30's plus a very few 50's. I've noticed very little difference in quality of play except a little bit of tightening, particullarly early (you don't see nearly as many multiple player all-in hands on the first level in the 30's as in the 10's) the higher the level. However, I don't play Party so YMMV. Once you get the concepts and gameplay down, you're good to go until you get to the point at which the good players become a factor and you're no longer playing against tables full of fish...