AQo... when to let go?

[Bill C]

15/30 at Bellagio; Button is a good solid TAG. Hero is CO
Folded to MP-2 who raises. Folded to CO
Hero in CO finds A /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif Reraises.
Button reraises again. Folded to MP who folds; Hero calls.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls

Turn: 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif
Hero bets, Button calls.

River:Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero bets, Button raises, hero calls
Button shows KK; HHIG

I realize this is a pretty mundane kind of hand for the various pooh-bahs, and that your hero didn't play it well at all. But it comes up again and again for me, and I can't seem to be able to get my hands around how to deal with it; when to fold when an overcard comes. When button reraised preflop, I thought "maybe I'm dominated." Turns out I was right, But while he may have had a better hand, I could think of a few that weren't better that he might raise with, too.

On the flop, I hated seeing that King, and I probably should have gone to check-fold or check call. But I had some outs even if he had a King.

When the turn paired the flopped 8 I didn't feel that it was decisive in any way to my hand or my situation, as I didn't see Button having an 8.

When the Queen came on the river, I thought about checking, but if all he had was a KX I had him beat.

As I re-read this I can see several places where I should have hit the silk. Probably the Flop was the time, and I am sure a case can be made for me to have folded at any step from the flop on.

I am a little embarrassed to even post this, but I can take the heat, and I'm trying to get better. I'm hoping somebody will give me some good solid thoughts to build on, as to how to deal with this problem.

bill /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[CanKid]

[ QUOTE ]
But I had some outs even if he had a King.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems your thinking is slightly flawed, what hands do you put the button on based on preflop action that makes you think him having a King would still give you outs?

[man]

I love your line... up until you called his raise on the flop. What can you beat here that he would have reraised preflop with?

[...silence...]

Exactly. You should be up against AK, AA, KK, or QQ (AQ, KQ? doubtful, but possible), or a bluff (with like AJs or JJ-99), and without a very strong read on the guy, it's impossible to call him down.

As for your opponent though, I hate his reraise on the flop and smooth-call on the turn. Maybe he read you for a queen and was praying for you to catch something, I don't know.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

exactly what hand do you put the buttton on? hand reading would have saved you tons of bets.

that is not a good flop for you. you're in a world of hurt against AA, KK, QQ and AK.

the only hand you can really hope for is JJ and a lot of Las Vegas regulars aren't willing to 4-bet that preflop.

checkfold the turn.

[elysium]

hi bill

you never should have been in there with that in the first place. AQ against a pre-flop raise is no good. if you raise in with AQ and get reraised from behind, you're likewise in deep trouble. throw these type hands away in sub-optimal situations like this one. get rid of it quickly.

[haakee]

The only hand a good, solid TAG has that you're ahead of is JJ, and he probably mucks it when you bet out on the flop. This hand was botched. I'll let others elaborate.

[La Brujita]

I agree with all of the analysis re: strength opponent's hand to 4-bet preflop. The thing that really strikes me this hand is your leading out on the turn after the previous streets have given you information that you most likely are in deep trouble.

I am not sure what that bet accomplishes.

Regards

[cpk]

Depends on who is doing the raising. It folded to MP-2--most of the time this is a steal, and he has position. Where it went all wrong was failing to put TAG on a monster.

[Bill C]

Thank you for the replies and advice.
To some degree, confession sears lessons into the soul, and I hope into the memory.

I appreciate each taking the time to read, think, and offer a response. Thanks again,

bill

[Ice]

Bill

I have a different take on this hand then most of the posters so take it for what it's worth. If the MP raiser is weak or plays a lot of hands i would three bet everytime to try and get it head up in position. When the TAG on button raises i would call the raise.

On the flop i would bet out since you have a pair and an overcard and when raised i would call. Remember on the flop there were (11.5sb) in the pot and after you bet and get raised there are (14.5sb) There is no way i muck my hand getting those pot odds. So far i like your play.

The turn is where you went wrong IMO. I think you should have played check-call to the river. There were just to many bets in the pot to be laying down your hand.
Continued success. Ice

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
Button is a good solid TAG.

Flop: K Q 8. Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

When the turn paired the flopped 8 I didn't feel that it was decisive in any way to my hand or my situation, as I didn't see Button having an 8.

[/ QUOTE ]

Combo's out -
that beat you - 9 AK, 3 AA, 3 KK, 1 QQ = 16
that tie - 6 AQ = 6
you beat - 6 JJ, 6 TT = 12

Unless he was raising for a free card with JJ or TT, it seems very likely that he raised a combo that beats you.

[astroglide]

well i guess his pocket fives won't be getting a free card on that turn