hold'em variant at niagara fallsview casino: analyze this game

[creedofhubris]

No raising, everyone antes and sees the flop. Terrible game for the advantage player, right?

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Niagara Hold’Em PokerTM is a unique, dynamic variation of the famous Texas Hold’Em Poker. This exciting style of poker has each player pitted against each other, with the house only taking a percentage of the pot. In a game with no checking or raising it is also an effective and entertaining method of bluffing.

Each player antes followed by three bets. The first bet is equal to the ante, the second and third are double. After collecting the antes and taking the house rake each player will receive two cards.

Five cards are then spread in front of the dealer. The first three are face up, the last two face down. These will be used as community cards by players to form their hand. Based on the strength of their cards each player will then declare their intent to remain in the game or fold.

When a player agrees to continue the dealer will add their first bet to the pot. If a player folds at this point, the dealer will collect the players cards and return the remaining bets to the player. After this round the fourth community card is revealed, followed by another round of betting. This round is followed by the fifth community card. At this point players can use any combination of seven cards to form the best possible five card Poker hand. The winning hand shall be determined using the best five of both the players and community cards and the pot is awarded to that player. In the case of ties, the pot shall be divided among the winning players. It is entirely possible the best hand will be the five community cards in which case the pot shall be divided among all remaining players.

[creedofhubris]

My initial thought is that position is even MORE important here than in standard hold'em, since first to act is hosed and will continue to be hosed.

My second thought is that at a 10-person table, you are getting odds to draw to just about anything on the flop (10:1!), and really it's turn and river "play" that matter. On the flop, chase any pair in position, any gutshot from any position. Go to the river with a flush draw or top pair...

By the river, don't overcall without 2p or better, because you'll have 10 players' worth of hands to beat? But the pots will be immense, so "saving" bets could be awful... I'm stumped.

This probably quickly becomes no fold'em?

[BarronVangorToth]

Position is huge, as said above, and I likewise agree more important than now.

I can see no checking ... but no raising?!?!

Very odd variant -- I won't be up that way for at least six months and even though it sounds bizarre, I certainly will give it a shot.

They really should have Rebate Hold 'em.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)

[memphis57]

What's the rake %? Sounds like -EV, like most casino table games, because you have to pay not only for prime floor space but for the dealer too. And with no checking/raising there's little room for more skillful players to shift the burden to the poorer players and pay you a consistent profit too. It's just a crapshoot, with probably 95-97% payback.

[Leo Bello]

Strange, cause it looks more like pure gambling. With no check and raising, the skill part goes away. YOu don´t play against your opponents, cause u can´t access their strength. And when u make a hand u like u can´t extract more money. Isn´t the principle extract maximum money when u can, and lose less in the hands you are not supoposed to win. You can still fold the bad hands, but u can´t take advantage when u have your good hands.

[BarronVangorToth]

It still rewards decision making and after thinking about it today I see no reason why a person who makes careful decisions wouldn't profit at this game.

Said decisions are different than what you normally have -- but they are still there.

Why it has a "table game" feel, it is nevertheless still a game where savviness will be rewarded.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)

[Tacjedi]

This game intends to compete with Caribbean Stud, Pai-Gow, Three-Card Poker, and other games of this sort. It is not really a replacement for Texas Hold’em. The guy who invented this game still plays Hold’em (and is quite good) in the U.S.A. It is a great way to incorporate the popularity of Texas Hold’em into a casino game with a house edge.

[creedofhubris]

I am lost; why is there more of a house edge here than in a standard hold'em game? You are playing the other players and not the house, correct?

Is it just, more hands an hour, therefore more rake?

[schroedy]

This should be a fairly easy game to analyze with software, and you should quickly be able to determine what hands are +EV against what boards (and in the face of what kind of action . . . well you have to know your players here a bit).

I would suspect that this quickly becomes something of a variant of very low limit/make the best hand poker only worse. A knowledge of your ability to draw out and hold up etc would be critical (as well as being one of the first skills that a new player needs to develop for the standard game).

I like the idea, however, because it will introduce more players to the game and get them used to procedures while seeming to minimize their risk to raises, etc.

Generally, bluffing and card reading skills will . . . for the most part, at least . . . diminish, while probabilities and "nut recognition" will escalate.

[DeadAA88]

The house advantage is after the ante (5 dollars at a 5-5-10-10) the dealer will rake 5 dollars immediatly from the pot regardless of its size.