Did I pay too much for this hand?

[DavidC]

I don't like this hand.

With 7.5BB in the pot after the turn call, I figure a reasonable opponent would bluff, so I called.

If he hit a pair on the turn and put me on overcards, this would be a good bet on his behalf, but he probably wouldn't have bet the river, since I couldn't call the turn with overcards unless one of them were giving me a four-flush.

Would you guys have folded this turn or river?

If you don't fold the turn, do you raise it?

If you raise it, do you fold to a re-raise?

If he calls your turn raise, and then checks the river, do you bet?

If he calls your turn raise, and then bets the river, do you call or fold?

Thanks for any comments or advice.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

[DavidC]

morning bump.

If there are too many questions on this post, then I understand. The main one is whether anyone would fold at any point.

[chief444]

Information on SB?

If I'm continuing I'm raising the turn and folding to a 3-bet.

[eleventy]

I'd only raise the turn if I had the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif I might fold the river on this.

[DeeJ]

I think you make things easier if you raise the turn.

<font color="blue"> Would you guys have folded this turn or river?
</font>
Depends on the opponent. If he was unknown, no.

<font color="blue">If you don't fold the turn, do you raise it?
If you raise it, do you fold to a re-raise? </font>

Yes and Yes


<font color="blue"> If he calls your turn raise, and then checks the river, do you bet? </font>

No. Well Yes. Well I don't know. Probably.

<font color="blue"> If he calls your turn raise, and then bets the river, do you call or fold? </font>

Fold, unless I know that he is liable to be attempting a steal with something like 2 pair or trips.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't fold the turn, do you raise it?

If you raise it, do you fold to a re-raise?

If he calls your turn raise, and then checks the river, do you bet?

If he calls your turn raise, and then bets the river, do you call or fold?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Yes, No (no shame in taking a free showdown with a 4-flush on board), Damn - that's a real good question, but I probably make a crying call.

[QuickLearner]

I would have folded on the turn. I figure him for two pair or a set of nines. He was probably just as worried as you were by the third diamond. Second choice would be to raise the turn and fold to a 3-bet.

I've been in this kind of spot many times, and I can't remember the last time my pair (even aces) was good.

[holdemfan]

how many hands can beat you now?
Any diamond=9, any 5= 3, Suited connectors making 2 pair. What would a SB call 1.5 sb with? Usually suited.

If you think hes bluffing on Turn raise and test it. The river is either a crying call or a fold.

[Monty Cantsin]

I think you played this fine. Not sure what a turn raise accomplishes. If he's betting a draw he's not likely to fold it. He could be betting a worse made hand or just bluffing. I don't think it matters much whether you call or fold the river, but I think calling is ok.

/mc

[DavidC]

Well... if he's trying to steal with trips, let him have it! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
If he calls your turn raise, and then checks the river, do you bet?

No. Well Yes. Well I don't know. Probably.


[/ QUOTE ]

If the river's a diamond, I suppose he could be checking a baby flush to you hoping to catch a bluff or just out of fear.

Is whether or not the card is suited to the flush the deciding factor here?

[DavidC]

Thanks for the response. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Edit: Since I'd just responded in the same thread, this doesn't count as a bump.

[DavidC]

I don't know if a 5 would have the guts to bet this turn.

He turned on the gas on the turn, so I don't put him on a rivered two pair. 9 and a diamond seem unlikely, because of your point that suited cards (and pairs) are most likely to call that pf raise.

I think a turn raise would have been lovely. I don't know if a set of nines would have been brave enough to wait til the turn to raise me, given that there was a flush draw on board.

[shejk]

Your header "did I pay too much for this hand?" sort of implies that he did have a good hand, but I would have put him on some kind of crap that AA would beat. When the flush card came he no longer felt comfortable just calling you down (since he wasn't sure the overcards would bet again), so he bet out instead. I think you should raise here, probably fold to a reraise (but I don't think it will come) and after the scary river, bet. It's probably just as scary to him, so if he got two pairs, maybe he'll fold em. And I think you can get a call sometimes from a 9 or the like. Anyway, would be easier if we got some kind of read on him.