River raise

[Trix]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB is very loose and very aggro, he have been betting into me alot and with very little. Putting him on any draw, any pair on the flop would be giving him too much credit.

MP is very loose and very passive. He calls any pair, any overcards, any one overcard+backdoor, any A, any gut on the flop and fold only the worst of those on the turn. I obviously dont know his river coldcalling standards, which is why I´m posting this, so people who have played more hands with these guys than I have can tell what their experience is.

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (7.70 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font> ....

If you also could say how often you think this will win the pot in percentage, then it would be nice.

thx.

[fyodor]

I don't think you will win 25% which is about what you need here. You will get called a lot more than that at the Party 5/10 if either of them has a pair.

I also think your preflop raise is a little loose even for 5 handed. Or maybe I'm too tight.

[Irishboy]

fold pre-flop

[Trix]

The EV of the river play is much further from 0 in than the preflop play, so can we talk about that instead ?

[Rubeskies]

I think preflop play is fine.

Both opponents are very loose and quite possibly are able to make the elusive bluff call with A high/underpair. I think that is what makes the raise -EV.

[Danenania]

Why not raise the flop hoping to get heads-up then call BB down no matter what? I think this would make things easier.

The river raise needs to work about 25% of the time to show a profit and I don't think it will. I think it might work 10-15% of the time, mostly because this guy will be calling with any A-high and any K-high that beats yours. Also if he is as crazy as you say he might bluff reraise sometimes and you can't call. ALSO there is a decent chance of MP calling 2 cold with any pair if he is unsettled and paranoid of BB's aggression.

[Jeff W]

I think the flop is a good spot to raise for a free card. Will BB often 3-bet the flop or call and bet the turn without a legitimate hand or draw?

On the river I think you win ~5% of the time. If both players have random hands, your equity is ~11%.

Pre flop: I think this raise is fine. I wouldn't raise K8s.

[Scotch78]

The BB seems like a big bluffer, so he is probably going be afraid that other people bluff him a lot. Kinda like when I call my girlfriend a lying, cheating bitch and don't let her go out clubbing with her friends because I'm a lying, cheating bastard. No way do I see him folding for one more bet after he has bet every street.

On the flop, I would like to raise for a free card and to clean up my king outs, but I don't think either will work. BB's lagginess can foil the former and this board almost certainly gives MP something that meets his calling standards. I see even less value is popping the turn.

Scott

[Alobar]

I dont like it.....at all. MP is a huge loose calling station it sounds like. So he's still going to call 2 cold with anything other than something with a 9 in it. Which he would fold anyway. You still also have to get the BB to fold too, he is going to call with ANY peice of the board, and prolly even A high. So basically, your only chance to win I think, is if you already have both of them beat. In which cse, just call and pray.

I like a flop raise in this spot, try and get it heads up with an aggro BB who you may be ahead of, and then use your position.

I dont make this raise preflop.

[Benman]

I tell you how I'd play this. Raise the flop and drive out the 3rd player. Then take a piece of paper and cover up the board cards. If checked to, bet both the turn and the river blind. Don't look at the board unless you get played back at. I'm serious.

[Trix]

Loose guy called with Kd7d. BB folded.

I still dont hate this, maybe it´s negative EV in isolation, but it´s also pretty good for my table image as I wont have worry about loosing the loose guy anymore when I have a hand and the bluffy guy bets into me.

I dont like the suggestion of raising the flop to get HU as it just isnt going to happen with that other guy behind and if it did happen, then there is a good chance that BB will pull a stop and go on the turn.

Lets change the turn to 2d and river to Qd, would you raise then ?

Are there any turn/river combinations you would bluffraise with the same action ?

[Jonny]

I really don't like to bluffraise unless my opponent is solid. LAGs don't fold for 1 more on the river, unless they have less than A hi usually.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]


Are there any turn/river combinations you would bluffraise with the same action ?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, for the same reason I wouldnt the way it currently is, the loose guy is calling with any piece of the board, and I think the BB calls one more if he has any peice of the board. Your only hope is folding the BB of an ace, but the times that happens arent near often enough to make it a +EV play.

[Trix]

You dont think BB will see strenght when I raise into the really loose player ?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
You dont think BB will see strenght when I raise into the really loose player ?

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesnt sound like the BB is smart enough to think like that, but even if he is, you still have the really loose player to worry about.

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]

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In response to

Poster: Alobar
Subject: Re: results


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You dont think BB will see strenght when I raise into the really loose player ?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It doesnt sound like the BB is smart enough to think like that, but even if he is, you still have the really loose player to worry about.




[/ QUOTE ]

ha, you suck at ypting, maybe I could give tyoju lessons