Tips for winning on party?

[ginko]

I'm a pokerstars player, have been since day. I've made thousands playing micro NL .02-.50 over the past few months. I finally decided to play Party because everyone says how there is so many fish there.

I deposited 200 and started 4 tabling on the $25 tables. I lost almost $80 in a little less than an hour(cleared a $40 bonus though). I played tight, but still managed to lose money.

I'm having trouble adjusting to the huge blinds. How agressive should I be playing AK? What about pocket pairs? Should I always fold 1010 to an overcard here?

Sets have been a big money maker for me, but on party, sets lose value like crazy. If I have $25 and I call a 2 dollar bet(which is like everytime), where are my implied odds?

Do I play mediocre hands to a raise? QJ KQ KJ AJ A10 etc.?? I'd normally fold these, however after only 10 minutes at the tables my $25 has been reduced to $20 from the blinds and calls/raises with AK/AQ or PP's.

Should I be less agressive preflop until I've made a hand and overbet like crazy or pot bet til river? I'm so confused /images/graemlins/confused.gif

It may sound like it, but I'm not a fish. I have a good style on stars of aggression/bluffs/playing my cards correct. But it just isn't working on party(albeit I didn't play for long, but my bankroll there is very fragile so I any advice is appreciated).

[TMFS9]

I wouldn't 4 table the 25NL with only a $200, the risk of ruin is going to be pretty high. I would suggest single tabling the tables until you get the bankroll up to ~400, that way you will get comfortable with the play have a bigger cushion. Then once you get back to 4 tabling peddle the nuts, because you will get paid off.

[tbach24]

If you were successful on stars, why don't you just move up limits there because the buy-ins are much bigger and you won't have to tweak your playing style too much.

[ginko]

The games are just really bad sometimes on stars. Wanted to play at the site where everyone makes so much more. I guess I'll 1-table(ZzZz...) on party, but I still need help on how aggressive I should be/hand selection.

And I assume you can't data mine on party anymore?

[wall_st]

Have you considered the 6 - max NL tables on party, these can be a gold mine.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you considered the 6 - max NL tables on party, these can be a gold mine.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wall St is correct. Play the 6 max $25's and tighten up a bit (no suited connectors unless 2 limpers, etc) until you triple your stack AND there is a player at the table who has the stack and 'wants' to double you up

[Publos Nemesis]

I enjoy limping monsters on Party $25 NL in early position. Because so many people like to min-raise with AJo, small pp, and random hands, you will trap a lot of money when you limp-reraise. Also, it is never good to play any marginal hands (including small pp) in the 6-max games unless it's limped to you on the C/O or button. And, on the button you should be stealing like crazy in the 6-maxes.

[wall_st]

If you are going to consider playing the 6 maxes, something to consider is table image is very important here. I have found that appearing to be the maniac when you are really just raising with the best hand and thus rarely having to show down a hand will give you an incredible amount of action. People just do not believe you, probably because people believe that it is much more likely you are bluffing in no limit.

I have seen frustrated and impatient players make some crazy moves at these levels if you are able to represent the proper table demeanor.

[mushi]

[ QUOTE ]
I have found that appearing to be the maniac when you are really just raising with the best hand and thus rarely having to show down a hand will give you an incredible amount of action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are absolutly right on. But how do you do it
I mean I only raise with the best hand I rarely bluff and when I have good cards I bet the pot on the flop, Ill bet 2/3 of the pot on the turn and If Im still good against an agrssive player Ill go all in in the river. Which I suppose is pretty standard.

How do I give myself an image of a maniac THATS what I want to know

thanks in advance

mushi /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Leo Bello]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't 4 table the 25NL with only a $200, the risk of ruin is going to be pretty high. I would suggest single tabling the tables until you get the bankroll up to ~400, that way you will get comfortable with the play have a bigger cushion. Then once you get back to 4 tabling peddle the nuts, because you will get paid off.

[/ QUOTE ]

what is the difference in terms of bankroll to single table with 200 at NL 25 or mutli-table. In terms of risk or ruin none. You will jsut play four times faster, get more hands, you will still have the same risk of ruin.
Ok, u can argue that u can focus more if u playing in one table only, but that is not always the case, some people playing only one table online, tend to distract with webpages, phone, small talk, ...

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wouldn't 4 table the 25NL with only a $200, the risk of ruin is going to be pretty high. I would suggest single tabling the tables until you get the bankroll up to ~400, that way you will get comfortable with the play have a bigger cushion. Then once you get back to 4 tabling peddle the nuts, because you will get paid off.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



what is the difference in terms of bankroll to single table with 200 at NL 25 or mutli-table. In terms of risk or ruin none. You will jsut play four times faster, get more hands, you will still have the same risk of ruin.
Ok, u can argue that u can focus more if u playing in one table only, but that is not always the case, some people playing only one table online, tend to distract with webpages, phone, small talk, ...

[/ QUOTE ]
I usually 4-table and still tend to distract with webpages, phone, small talk, ... Am i doing something wrong? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Leo Bello]

Maybe u just normal...

[amoeba]

do stuff like open push with AA/KK preflop, raise preflop on the button with suited connectors, mid pocket pairs. be more aggressive all around.

Thats how you pretend to be a maniac. you maintain same VPIP, you play same number of hands as you would play normally but when you play them, you almost always play them for a raise. I think I preflop raise more hands at 6 max than I limp.

But this style is hard to pull off and require a lot of good postflop play.

[salloch]

I play mostly full ring games at Party 1 - 2 NL.

The biggest adjustment is stack size. You can't play as many sneaky hands and hope to get paid off huge. Because the money's not deep, I don't think you can play as many hands as you might on Stars.

I would NOT play those mediocre hands for a (big) raise. Period. There are better opportunities to make money.

I play sets, and made hands VERY fast on the flop. Your sets WILL be profitable. Also, you will probably get your nuts paid off much more often on Party than on Stars. I think value betting at the lower limits on Party is not as profitable. (Read the essay on overbetting in this month's twoplusttwo magazine, it's right on.)

Also with short stacks, you really have to pay attention to how many chips will be left on the turn or river if you bet and are called. Many times, your opponent is getting proper odds to chase on the turn because there's just not much money left. If a flop bet will leave you or your opponent with less than 1/4 of the pot to bet on the turn or river, you may want to consider checking (so you can put the question to him on 4th street) or pushing.

Good Luck!

[ginko]

Thanks for the replies guys. I do kinda like 6 handed tables,so I might try them.

I still need suggestions on how to play big PP's/AK. With something like QQ-TT, if it flops an overcard, should I ignore it and keep on betting? I read this in a thread here...somewhere. Sounds crazy, are PP players this bad?


And AK, should I be willing to go allin preflop here? This sounds crazy too, but I might get some calls from any A or K or Q and alot of folding equity from small PP's, and rarely be up a hand that truely dominates me(AA/KK). I just hate the idea of raising a bunch preflop then folding to no A/K flopping. Maybe I'm just being stupid and should do a raise of $2-3 and bet like $10 on an A/K flop and fold nothing flops. Yea I'm being stupid.

With QQ-TT an overcard with flop more than 50% of the time... need suggestions, thanks again.

[amoeba]

when you have PP and flops an overcard, whether you should bet or not depends on how many people are in the hand. If its heads up, I tend to bet it.

With AK, you can go all in preflop but its stack size dependent. I wouldn't open push with AK.

you need to realize that you will only hit A or K on the flop 1/3 of the time. But the point is that when you bet preflop, they have no idea whther you did it with AK or JJ or QQ. So try betting the flop when you miss too but folding to a flop bet before you when you miss. and obviously I would recommend only betting the flop when you miss with AK when its headsup. Multiway, its not that good.

[vanHelsing]

[ QUOTE ]
So try betting the flop when you miss too but folding to a flop bet before you when you miss.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but I always raise minbets. I don't know what they represent (small PPs, bluffs?), but they fold 9/10 times to a pot sized raise in my experience.

[ QUOTE ]
and obviously I would recommend only betting the flop when you miss with AK when its headsup. Multiway, its not that good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mix it up in a 3-way pot. Depends of the flop structure.

[amoeba]

yes 3 way I mix it.

[ginko]

This is good stuff, but can you guys give me some ideas on what other hands to play(other than AAQQKKAKAQ)?

If I'm only hitting AK 1/3 of the time, overcards flopping 1/2 the time(say if I have JJ), sets hitting 1/8 the time, where is the most of my money coming from?

I guess I should be limping from late position with bigger cards and hoping to hit top pair good kicker? I just hate sitting there like a rock getting blinded away. I'm a better player than this.

Thanks again for all the tips guys.

[theredpill]

People think I'm a maniac many times and they often call my $3 raises preflop when I have KK AA QQ . I really don't think it is hard to get these fish to call your raises preflop. I sometimes have a problem with too many calling my raises preflop when I have a good hand. First thing is to realize you have a problem. There has to be a problem or it isn't worth it. I mean if they are already calling your raising when you have KK , don't worry about acting like a maniac. Just play it straight up. If they are folding to your raises, this is when you need to start acting. (or just move to another table). Might be easier just to move to another table. Might be cheaper too. Get KQ....raise to $3. Get K T....raise to $3 preflop. Get A T ...raise to $3 . Get KK ...raise to $3 and get paid. You get the idea. When you have KQ, you will win enough times to make this profitable at the 6 max I think. Same for A T and Q J, etc. If they are folding to your raises, then you just won 75 cents with K Q. Not bad and KQ isn't really even worth that much. Raise the same amount each time so when you get KK and you raise the same, they will think you are full of it. I should add that you do need to understand when you need to give these hands up. Also, nothing wrong with checking on the flop after you have raised. Save money but project a crazy image.

[vanHelsing]

try this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=ssplnlpoker&Number=997 575&Forum=f25&Words=fun&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main =997002&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=11964&dater ange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype= &bodyprev=#Post997575)

This style compared to nut peddling will make you more money, it will give you more fun, as you really "earn" the money and it actually feels like playing poker. Nut peddling always seemed a bit like playing bingo to me.