Should I move up to $100 max NL?

[Kips Bay Kid]

I have been playing a lot of $25 & $50 max NL and quite frankly I have not been enjoying it. Since the stacks are low / shallow you do not generate enough fold equity. For example you could have $35 in front of you, get a pot that is $8 on the flop, $24 on the turn and then your all-in (semi-)bluff is just another $22 or so, the chances of you being called by someone with more then $22 is pretty good thus devaluing your bluff.

What this leads to is a style of play where you just have to have patience, wait for a hand and value bet when you have a hand worth betting since bluffing / semi-bluffing does not seem to pay off in high enough frequency. While I can see this style of play being profitable it's not my idea of "fun", but rather more of a grind.

I am hoping moving up to $100 max will open the game up a little bit since people will think twice of calling your $40 bet. I realize I have to be more careful of getting bluffed as well, but I think I will have a better game at this level.

Am I setting myself up for disappointment or are my expectations misguided?

[Kips Bay Kid]

This post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1521286&page=2&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) is what got me thinking of this.
During this hand the guy that called my bluff was about to laydown his hand, he typed, "folding JJ", but then a second later he types, "hmmmmmmmmm" and then calls me, my thinking is that it was not that much more money so there was not much at risk in his calling.

[Seether]

No, you are moving up for the wrong reasons.

[warlockjd]

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you could have $35 in front of you

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Always rebuy to $50 ASAP. Be obsessive about it. Why double up $35 when it should have been $50?

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your all-in (semi-)bluff is just another $22 or so, the chances of you being called by someone with more then $22 is pretty good thus devaluing your bluff.

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Seems obvious to me. Don't semibluff unless you are sure the player is good, and that he respects your play enough to lay down, and even then do it infrequently. I prefer not at all.

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While I can see this style of play being profitable it's not my idea of "fun", but rather more of a grind.

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Man if you're playing NL to have "fun," I don't know what to say. It's a grind and always will be. Altho to me it is "fun" to trap another 6 buyin stack and take him out. But the reason I can do that is because I've been "grinding" for an hour, taking massive notes, and watching his every move, and testing his reactions to certain bets and situations.

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I am hoping moving up to $100 max will open the game up a little bit since people will think twice of calling your $40 bet

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In terms of BB's it's all the same. Not sure how this makes a difference.

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I realize I have to be more careful of getting bluffed as well, but I think I will have a better game at this level.


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Being careful of getting bluffed is step one to going broke at NL. Your read better be spot on. And what about all the advertisers such as myself? We want you to think you are being bluffed, but if you make a move on the pot and we call, then we have it and you lose.


I'm sure this sounds harsh, but I am trying to be factual to help you.

If you can afford it, sure, take a shot. I had to pay my dues when I moved up initially (over $2k worth), but be very careful. Only playing on Thurs, Fri and Sat night will help.

Also, do NOT expect that the style of play that rakes it in on Fri night will work Mon afternoon.

Hope this helps

[okayplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been playing a lot of $25 & $50 max NL and quite frankly I have not been enjoying it. Since the stacks are low / shallow you do not generate enough fold equity. For example you could have $35 in front of you, get a pot that is $8 on the flop, $24 on the turn and then your all-in (semi-)bluff is just another $22 or so, the chances of you being called by someone with more then $22 is pretty good thus devaluing your bluff.

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If you are not enjoying it, why continue? I think you mean "frustrated", and if these stack sizes are bothering you, move to a 100BB or bigger buy in (there are only a few, but they exist).
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What this leads to is a style of play where you just have to have patience, wait for a hand and value bet when you have a hand worth betting since bluffing / semi-bluffing does not seem to pay off in high enough frequency. While I can see this style of play being profitable it's not my idea of "fun", but rather more of a grind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the LAG in you wants to get out. You have to be very skilled and have excellent reading abilities to do this, and bluffing at these low limits rarely pays off. For this type of play to be more profitable, I think you have to be in a deeper stack, higher stakes game.
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I am hoping moving up to $100 max will open the game up a little bit since people will think twice of calling your $40 bet. I realize I have to be more careful of getting bluffed as well, but I think I will have a better game at this level.

Am I setting myself up for disappointment or are my expectations misguided?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't move up because of this. I would move up in stakes after you've reached a pre-defined goal (# hands and WR). I'd recommend atleast 25K hands and a WR of 5+ (PT)BB/100.

[warlockjd]

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I wouldn't move up because of this. I would move up in stakes after you've reached a pre-defined goal (# hands and WR). I'd recommend atleast 25K hands and a WR of 5+ (PT)BB/100.

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Very sound advice indeed.

[greg nice]

if youre talking about party, the $100 games are the same shallow stacks

learn to beat the ridiculously easy 50 level first

[AncientPC]

You have a few flaws in your thinking.

Whenever you bet, raise, or call you do so based on blind size, pot size, and stack size. Moving up in limits merely doubles all the numbers, but shouldn't change your playing style.

I think you're more frustarated at Party with the shallow stacks of 50BB, you may want to move to another site that offers 100BB stacks (everywhere) or 200BB stacks (Absolute).

[beta1607]

Why not just play low limit on Paradise or pokerroom with 100 BB stacks instead of PP 50 bb stacks?

[Kips Bay Kid]

I am playing at pokerstars 100BB, the problem with the lower levels is that the pots grow faster then at $100 max (in general). I know the chip sizes are relative, but that does not stop most tables at $50 max from having a standard $3-4 opening PFR, that drastically changes the complexion of the game. You get 2-3 callers and now the flop pot is $10-15 you will not (often) see flop pots @ $100max that size in proportion to the table limit. When you are working with a flop pot that is at least 20% of your stack it helps to have folding equity, when people have less in their stack then what is in the pot they are more inclined to call an all-in when they are holding JJ against a T-High board.

[AncientPC]

You'd be surprised. I'm at the point when I raise to 6BB (£.5/£1 NL) from the button and all 5 players call doesn't surprise me anymore.