$30/$60 Slowplay Gone Awry

[theBruiser500]

I had been playing tight so far, that makes the preflop play okay, doesn't it? Then on the flop the BB is a solid player, and the SB is bad/aggro so I thought I didn't want to shut him out of the hand even though my hand is so well disguised it calls for a raise. Flop play okay?

Then on the turn my play is ruined because SB folded. So I have a big hand and wanted to build a big pot, but maybe I should have just let him keep the initiative here?

PokerStars 30/60 Hold'em (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[mmcd]

You might want to wait until the river in these situations.

Often the bb could be firing at a ragged board like that w/trash hoping you'll fold overcards. If he catches a pair, he may check/call the river in an effort to pick off a bluff, or value bet (he may or may not call a raise), and if even if he doesn;t catch a pair, he might bet again if his hand has no showdown value. I doubt he has a 10 here, so the only hands your line really works best against are pocket pairs that he decides to pay off with.

[Justin A]

Bruiser,
This is really none of my business, but 30/60? I know you've got the bankroll for it, but this really doesn't seem like a +EV move.

Justin A

[MarkD]

Raising the flop has to be a good line here too doesn't it? Hero could have nearly anything and many opponents would put in a large number of bets with any pair on this flop IMO.

I don't wait until the river often enough. I think this hand could be a good one to employ that strategy.

[Jeffage]

You screwed up the flop here. They expect you to raise with AK,AQ, etc. Your superman raise on the turn probably convinced your opponent you had AA or KK. Sometimes its best to do what they expect. If you had raised the flop,you may have been called by something like 55 or a weak 10 the whole way.

Jeff

[LuckYou777]

I'm pretty sure this hands going to keep me awake for awhile. Its such a common situation for me, and i've yet to find a "correct" play.

First of all, the preflop play was defintely sound in my mind. Suited connectors, even with one gap, have always been a great gear-change hand for me.

As for the flop, I don't see any other way to even try to build a pot. Nothing you can do about that SB fold.

The turn play... tough. I could lean either way... my standard in that position is to wait to pop him on the river, where he'll be getting a little more bang for his buck in terms of pot odds for calling your (river) raise.

Long story short, sleep easy. If my advice were worth much, I wouldn't be grinding it out at Party $15-$30.

best of "luck."

/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="green"> "3 Card" Monte Green </font> /images/graemlins/club.gif

[mmcd]

It's a 4 handed game. I don't think AK/AQ/AA/KK are too high on the list of his opponents possible reads. I don't think a 10 folds here under any circumstances, and I also don't think a 10 just leads the flop like that too often. If he has a hand like 55, either he pays it off or he doesn't. A turn raise here could easily be a semi-bluff/bluff/value/free-showdown raise from a big Ace or any pocket pair.

[Jeffage]

"If he has a hand like 55, either he pays it off or he doesn't. A turn raise here could easily be a semi-bluff/bluff/value/free-showdown raise from a big Ace or any pocket pair."

If he has a hand like 55, he would likely fold to a turn raise. If you call the turn, he may bet the river or check-call, either of which gains you an additional bet (assuming he would fold to a river raise if you bet it). The thing is, no one takes a flop raise as serious as a turn raise and he is betting the flop with the idea that you will likely raise. That you don't raise will make him worry more about your hand than if you do...trust me. And you don't want to worry him here since you are likely WAY ahead.

Waiting till the river to raise also has merit. But I much prefer raising the flop here to raising the turn.

Jeff

[mmcd]

I highly doubt he has JJ here. I don't think raising on the flop is a bad play (it's certainly much better than the line he took), but I think the possibility that the bb has absolutely nothing makes a river raise a better play. If bb had a decent hand, I think he more likely than not would have check-raised the flop. By raising the flop here, I think the action on the turn will go check/bet/fold a little too often to make it better than waiting until the river. If he's the type to go out of his way to "represent" a hand on the flop, then raising is clearly the best play as you will get 3-bet and bet into on the turn.

In any event, calling the flop and raising the turn comes in a distant 3rd behing these two lines.

[haakee]

I would dump this preflop if the SB is bad aggro.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

hey bruiser, if you said bb is a good player postflop, you're picking the wrong street to raise. either do it on the flop or the river.

[shaundeeb]

Just raise the river instead of the turn get him to commit another 60 then charge him.

[elindauer]

Hey Bruiser,

What are you going to do on the turn if he 3-bets? Are you going to cap it? If not, you should wait until the river. Your opponent is drawing super thin, and his only out is a ten which will be there plain as day for you to see.

The key is that there is just no draw that your opponent can have. If he's bluffing, let him keep bluffing. If he has a ten, he'll probably bet it on the river for you and you can get your raise in then.

Raising the turn isn't bad. I just think you gain a little more by waiting until the river on this one.


Good luck.
Eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
hey bruiser, if you said bb is a good player postflop, you're picking the wrong street to raise. either do it on the flop or the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree with CDC that a flop raise is reasonable. This would be especially if you had a more laggish image, as your opponents will not give you credit for the 6 and you may get a lot of action. Since you say you had a very tight image at this table though, I prefer the slowplay.


-Eric

[surfdoc]

I think that as the others have described it is better to pop this one on the river with the flop as a second choice and the turn as third choice. I think the river is best because I just can't stomach the rare possibility of winning this one on the flop with such a well hidden hand. It is okay to get a bit greedy here, let him keep betting.