Differences between Party 15/30 and Party 3/6

[Spicymoose]

What are the major differences between these limits? Obviously 15/30 is harder than 3/6, but how? Are players tighter? More aggressive? Trickier? Can any one post 1 or 2 "standard" plays in 3/6 (without reads) that would be different at 15/30?

Thanks,
Spicymoose

[Evan]

I've never played the 15 game but I can tell you that in 10/20 6 max the players are just as poor on average. However, they're bad aggressive instead of bad passive. They're bad in the way of giving enitirely too much postflop action. Against the right opponents (like someone that moved straight there from 3/6) this bad play would probably be much closer to optimal than you might think.

EDIT: Two part edit
1. Since you still have my copy of SSH I am going to Border's today to buy another one and you will transfer me money for the one you have.
2. I will look for an example of what I'm talking about.

[Spicymoose]

Geez, I never thought I'd be telling YOU this. Your post belongs in the HUSH section /images/graemlins/smile.gif

But post your examples anyway... im curious.

[MaxPower]

There are number of things that I have noticed. I'll just mention one here.

At 3/6 your opponents rarely get the maximum value our of their good hands. They will occasionally miss value bets on the river than you would have called.

In the 15/30 game even the bad players usually get good value on their good hands and very rarely miss value bets on the river.

So if you are missing value bets at 3/6 it doesn't hurt you that much because your opponents make the same mistake against you. In the 15/30 game, if you are missing value bets and your opponents are not - that is very bad.

That was poorly worded, but I hope you get the point.

[Evan]

The texture of the 10/20 6 max game is pretty similar to that of the 15/30 game.

[Spicymoose]

So in regards to this point, you would play 15/30 and 3/6 the same, but simply be making more BB at 3/6 because of your opponents' lack of value betting?

[Evan]

...of bad players that are too aggressive.

10/20 6 max, 6 handed

I'm UTG with 88
I raise, folded to BB who calls

Flop: QJ7r
BB bets, I call

Turn: Q
BB bets, I call

River: 6
BB bets, I call

BB shows A2

[Barry]

No that's only a small part of it. The 15 game is much more aggressive. As a result, you're not going to get to or want to limp with hands like suited connectors, small pairs or suited A's as just about every pot is raised PF.

On the other hand once you get used to the raising standards of some of these folks you will want to be 3-betting PF with a wider range of hands than you might be used to.

Also there is quite a bit of semi-bluffing or aggro moves going on so, you start to decide to call down more often than you might in a more passive game.

[Evan]

Great points.

To echo that preflop description, my 6 max vpip is 20.4 and my PFR is 17.3. My vpip outside of the blinds is 16.75 with a PFR of 16.59.

The comments about 3 betting lighter and calling down more are also really true and crucial adjustments. I've started regularly 3 betting with ATo which was really new for me (I have James to thank for this).

Also, I've been semi-bluffed to death. Turn check-raises mean nothing to me anymore. You need to show down a lot more 2nd and 3rd pairs in these games. Also, understanding when you can value bet strong ace highs on the river will make you a lot of bets.

I guess this was kinda a useless post since I pretty much just said "Yea, Barry's smart." But i think these are all really important points to understand when you move up.

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
So in regards to this point, you would play 15/30 and 3/6 the same, but simply be making more BB at 3/6 because of your opponents' lack of value betting?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not at all. I was just mentioning one thing, because I didn't really want to write a whole essay. Plus, I'm no expert on the game.

You may not believe this because the 3/6 games are pretty aggressive and crazy, but the players in the 15/30 are even more aggressive and that is difficult to deal with at times. You will have to make a lot more difficult decisions and it won't always be obvious when you are beat.

At 3/6 you can steal blinds very easily and they will not put up much of a fight if they miss the flop. At 15/30 many players will make it very difficult.

The reason I mention the value betting is that it seems to be a problem for me and is probably part of the reason my win rate is so pitiful.

[odellthurman]

twelve and twenty-four dollars