Cold calling pt. 2

[Nick Royale]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 is has a pfr of 4% and MP2 is tight (vpip 17%) and pretty aggressive (pfr 6%)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.
<font color="blue">I would 3-bet a more aggressive UTG+1, but I like my smooth call. </font>

Flop: (8.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls
<font color="blue">My flop aggression factor is about 2.80, I can see why it's not higher. This is an easy raise for free card situation, right? And about my faf, it's a little low, no?</font>

[jskills]

In most cases, reraising preflop could be the way to go here, but it sounds as if your read on the 2 villans was that they were pretty tight so the call seeemed ok.

On the flop, not that I think raising is terrible (with the intention of folding to a reraise or turn bet if it's no help to you), but raising the flop doesn't get you a free card anymore than calling does right?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
In most cases, reraising preflop could be the way to go here, but it sounds as if your read on the 2 villans was that they were pretty tight so the call seeemed ok.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I felt it was more safe to get it multiway since they're pretty tight.

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, not that I think raising is terrible (with the intention of folding to a reraise or turn bet if it's no help to you), but raising the flop doesn't get you a free card anymore than calling does right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course raising gives me a free card more often than calling (edited). And if I'm 3-betted on the flop I'll get 1:16 to call, folding is not an option.

[Entity]

Nick,

I would fold this preflop most of the time and 3-bet some of the time. AQs sure is a pretty hand, but you do realize how few hands a 4% PFR represents, right? Over how many hands are your statistics based?

Rob

[jskills]

You didn't check the flop bet, you called it. So what I was saying it whether you raise or call, you still get to see the turn card. Am I confused? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course raising gives me a free card more often than checking.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I misstyped. It should say call.

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't check the flop bet, you called it. So what I was saying it whether you raise or call, you still get to see the turn card. Am I confused?

[/ QUOTE ]
My point was raising might give me free river. You're right, I'll see the turn either way.

[jskills]

Ok I get it. You're saying your raise on the flop will cause villan to check the turn? If you get bet at on the turn, your flop raise was for naught.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold this preflop most of the time and 3-bet some of the time. AQs sure is a pretty hand, but you do realize how few hands a 4% PFR represents, right? Over how many hands are your statistics based?

[/ QUOTE ]
About 60 hands. My idea was that most party players can't play their postions right, so they'll raise about the same hands everywhere. That would make this raise somewhat less scary (Maybe I'm way off base here). But to be honest, my reads when multitabling isn't that great. I only had a vague read at the time I made this play.

EDIT:
Against a standard sshe reading player in UTG+1, and the tight player still in MP2 would my coldcall look good?

[theghost]

I always look at AQ (suited or not) as a raise or fold hand, dependent on the raiser.
Unknown: fold
Tight: fold
Loose: 3-bet

[Nick Royale]

Not sure I'm right, but I think there's situations when cold calling AQs is ok, just as cold colling KQs can be correct.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure I'm right, but I think there's situations when cold calling AQs is ok, just as cold colling KQs can be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, there are situations where it is correct, but those are...ahem...situational. Preflop here, I think folding is better than 3-betting is better than calling.

Rob

[droolie]

I don't raise this flop. I fold.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't raise this flop. I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I saw the flop (which many seem to say I shouldn't) is folding really correct? Am I wrong counting my outs here: 3 for the overcards, 1.5 for the backdoor. Total 4.5 outs giving the odds of about 1:9, getting 1:10.5 to call. You think I should discount my overcards more?

[droolie]

Between the board being paired and tight UTG preflop raising I don't like either of your overcards much at all. The backdoor flush draw is probably clean but the board is paired... It's probably not wrong to call but I don't do it. Raising is highly likely to get you 3 bet.

[Kasumeat]

[ QUOTE ]
Between the board being paired and tight UTG preflop raising I don't like either of your overcards much at all. The backdoor flush draw is probably clean but the board is paired... It's probably not wrong to call but I don't do it. Raising is highly likely to get you 3 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I don't think a raise here will get 3-bet. The board is paired, and most tight players are all too eager to give you credit for trips here, and call down.

I'm still folding PF and the flop though.

[NateDog]

AQs is one of the few hands I'll coldcall with, however it is very read dependant for me. I'd like to be later, and with the raise coming from EP to MP, I'd like some limpers up front to come along. In this case it's UTG, and I give most players a little credit for being position aware, especailly UTG. I'd probably fold PF here.

This flop is marginal at best. 2 overs that you can't think are clean, and a paired board. My line would be raise or fold. I would lean toward folding here. If you raise for the free river, you may get 3 bet and have to fold, or UTG may bet out again on the turn, negating your free card play. Additionally, raising the flop forces BB to call 2 cold, which he probably won't do unless he's got you beat.