Cold calling pt. 1

[Nick Royale]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

I'm not cold calling much (slightly less than 2/1000 hands) but when I do I tend to lose. Please take a look at a few of my cold calling hands. This hand is the first in the series:

UTG is pretty aggressive preflop, but becomes more passive postflop. MP2 felt like a standard party player.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.
<font color="brown">Felt cold calling here was ok. </font>

Flop: (13.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.
<font color="brown">Guess I should have raised gor a free card here? I often come miss these raises. </font>

Turn: (9.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.
<font color="brown">And this is a raise for value, I guess? </font>

River: (14.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.
<font color="brown">Dubble bubble! </font>

Final Pot: 28.25 BB

[jskills]

Depending on your read or UTG raiser, it's a decision on whether to cold call or not with KTs. In may cases, you should be folding, since you can't be sure there won't be a reraise after you.

I might just fold on the flop too - maybe the odds are there to draw to an inside straight, but I don't like to. The backdoor flush is not the nut flush either.

But alas, the turn was great for you and I think your play from that point on was perfect.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a fold is in order on the flop. It missed you. You don't have odds to draw to an inside straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gut-shot straight, backdoor flush plus king overcard ain't enough to call getting 1:16??? You must be a tight player!

EDIT:
[ QUOTE ]
Depending on your read or UTG raiser, it's a decision on whether to cold call or not with KTs. In may cases, you should be folding, since you can't be sure there won't be a reraise after you.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I don't feel I have to fear a raise, since my hand is great multiway. Right?

[jrz1972]

Folding the flop for one bet is terrible.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding the flop for one bet is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]
And a raise is the way to go?

[jskills]

After looking at the odds properly, you guys are right.

[cold_cash]

I don't mind the cold-call, I guess. Usually I hate it, but I'm trying to expand my horizons.

The flop play depends a lot on whether or not you think a free card raise will work. If you think it will, I'd go for it. Getting 3-bet sucks hard, so I'd be plenty sure before I tried it. I don't want to pay 3 bets to see the turn card when I could have paid one.

Turn is fine.

I hope MP2's flush is lower than yours.

[jrz1972]

I understand the argument for raising, but UTG has shown nothing but aggression so far. IMO it's too likely that you'll get reraised or bet into on the turn to make the free card play work here. I would call.

[btspider]

the hand looks fine on all streets.

free cards are overrated, especially when your overcard is dubious and you only have a gutshot and a backdoor. you are in great position to raise the field if you catch a Q.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Depending on your read or UTG raiser, it's a decision on whether to cold call or not with KTs. In may cases, you should be folding, since you can't be sure there won't be a reraise after you.

I might just fold on the flop too - maybe the odds are there to draw to an inside straight, but I don't like to. The backdoor flush is not the nut flush either.

But alas, the turn was great for you and I think your play from that point on was perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding the flop is a ghastly error, and terrible poker.

I think the coldcall preflop is fine, better yet if CO is loose.

Raising the flop is generally not a good idea, as getting 3-bet here sucks and your equity is decent, but not great.

You don't have quite enough outs to raise the turn for value, though it's close (12 outs, 2.83:1 to hit, but you don't want CO to fold).

River play is good too. If MP2 is very passive, I would go for overcalls after being 3-bet, but capping is almost always good here.

Rob

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.
<font color="brown">Felt cold calling here was ok. </font>


[/ QUOTE ]

Man I hate cold calling - 3 people called though, and I'm guessing at least one of the blinds will also. You have a hand that could have some teeth and a nice pot brewing - I guess it's ok.
[ QUOTE ]

Flop: (13.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.
<font color="brown">Guess I should have raised gor a free card here? I often come miss these raises. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Would raise in this spot. Not so much for a free card, but Your King Could be good if you spike it, you have a draw to the nut straight, and a backdoor draw to the flush. There may be enough value to raise on its own merits. The addition of a free card just adds to that.

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (9.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.
<font color="brown">And this is a raise for value, I guess? </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

No - just call
[ QUOTE ]

River: (14.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.
<font color="brown">Dubble bubble! </font>

Final Pot: 28.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

River plays itself.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[jskills]

You wouldn't fold a K10s in middle position ever - under any circumstances?

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
You wouldn't fold a K10s in middle position ever - under any circumstances?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's saying flop, not pre-flop.

[jskills]

Oh yes he did say the flop. My mistake. I need to get some more coffee today I think. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Thanks.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop is generally not a good idea, as getting 3-bet here sucks and your equity is decent, but not great.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about this. If you look at the type of out individually, your probably right - not enough reason to raise. However collectively, and with the chance of freezing the action and getting a free card, it has much more value.

If PF raiser has manical tendicies, then certainly just calling is the better option.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i would not coldcall this in MP3 as a 3-bet behind you would suck. the only times you'll see me coldcall in middle position is with a pair.

raising the flop or the turn would be a serious mistake.

river is obviously fine.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Would raise in this spot. Not so much for a free card, but Your King Could be good if you spike it, you have a draw to the nut straight, and a backdoor draw to the flush. There may be enough value to raise on its own merits. The addition of a free card just adds to that.

[/ QUOTE ]
If everybody (including CO) calls behind I have equity. If CO folds but everybody else calls I have slightly -EV on the raise. And if CO folds and UTG 3-bets an maybe even folds one or two of the trapped players it's a disaster.

Add to that the fact (see btspider's post) that you would like UTG to bet out if I hit my straight, calling is the best option.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
i would not coldcall this in MP3 as a 3-bet behind you would suck. the only times you'll see me coldcall in middle position is with a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
Does it suck that great? It's multiway and my hand plays well multiway.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would not coldcall this in MP3 as a 3-bet behind you would suck. the only times you'll see me coldcall in middle position is with a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
Does it suck that great? It's multiway and my hand plays well multiway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, getting 3-bet here sucks royally. If there is a LAG or otherwise aggressive player behind you, folding is probably better, but against party standards at this level (LP's or TP's), I think coldcalling is ok.

Rob

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, getting 3-bet here sucks royally. If there is a LAG or otherwise aggressive player behind you, folding is probably better, but against party standards at this level (LP's or TP's), I think coldcalling is ok.


[/ QUOTE ]

Because of my implied odds going down (since I'll have to make it up 50% more postflop if i hit a flush) or because of the risk being dominated is to great?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Because of my implied odds going down (since I'll have to make it up 50% more postflop if i hit a flush) or because of the risk being dominated is to great?

[/ QUOTE ]

Both.

[Nick Royale]

Thanks all! Lost the hand to the A4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif MP2 held.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would raise in this spot. Not so much for a free card, but Your King Could be good if you spike it, you have a draw to the nut straight, and a backdoor draw to the flush. There may be enough value to raise on its own merits. The addition of a free card just adds to that.

[/ QUOTE ]
If everybody (including CO) calls behind I have equity. If CO folds but everybody else calls I have slightly -EV on the raise. And if CO folds and UTG 3-bets an maybe even folds one or two of the trapped players it's a disaster.

Add to that the fact (see btspider's post) that you would like UTG to bet out if I hit my straight, calling is the best option.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your analysis. The main advantage to raising the flop would be the potential of a free card. Against a UTG raise, hard to imagine that a K is much of an overcard out, so you're really looking for that Q. If you get 3-bet by UTG, then your free card goes out the window, since UTG is likely to lead the turn again.

I think I like how you played the hand the whole way. Except I would just call the 3-bet on the river and not cap.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I like how you played the hand the whole way. Except I would just call the 3-bet on the river and not cap.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought about it, but thinking I would get at least one overcall I thought a cap would be +EV. He could have made a straight, a lower flush (or maybe even hit a set of queens or two pairs QJ, not very likely though).

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]


raising the flop or the turn would be a serious mistake.



[/ QUOTE ]

Elaborate about the flop raise being a serious mistake?

Is it soley for the risk of a three-bet?

The risk of the three bet compared to the value of the raise, and the possiblity of the free card on the turn if I want it don't seem to add up - plus maybe I get AT to fold behind me or something of that nature.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif