PP $15/$30 Hand

[Aaron Harsh]

I had been playing at this table for about an hour and had a pretty good set of data on the Villain. He's a good tight very aggressive guy who is capable of laying down a hand. Then the following hand came up.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 <font color="#A500AF">(Villain)</font> raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 <font color="#A500AF">(Villain)</font> caps</font>, Hero calls.

I'm thinking probably AK suited here, or even AA or KK, so had better see a flop and maybe check it down as I'm probably behind.

Flop: (8.66 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villain bets</font>, Hero calls.

Hmmmm....still don't know where he is. JJ, TT might still be a possibility for him.

Turn: (5.33 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Now I'm thinking that since I played this whole hand like I had AK or AQ, I may as well see if he'll bite.

Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villain bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Villain folds.

Final Pot: 8.33 BB

Turns out he had KK, and was able to fold for the check-raise.

After the preflop action, I figured I was probably behind but he could have JJ, TT, or maybe 99 also, so I should check/call all the way. When the opportunity on the river came up, I thought I could throw some doubt in his mind as I knew I had played the hand like I was waiting for something like a big card to show up.

What do you think? Is this a place to use the check-call, or do I have to stay more aggressive throughout the hand?

Thanks.

[LA_Price]

Hey HarleyDave,

This is obviously an extremely player dependent hand. If his capping standards are KK, AA, AK, QQ then I really like the check raise on the turn and even more so if he'd cap with JJ. Lets look at some scenarios. Your risking 60 and possibly 90 if he calls and you intend to call the river if he bets
six times he has KK and passes
return to you: 960
one time he has the other QQ's and passes
return to you: 160
six times he has AA and calls and bets the river if you check or calls if you bet
return to you: -540
four times he has AKs and calls and bets the river if you check or calls if you bet
return to you: -360

Total return to you: 360

Let me know if I did the math right here but it looks like a profitable spot to bluff. I played with you the other night at black bear and you seem to have good judgement I assume you're right when you say he's tight and aggressive. See you around the tables

[Jeffage]

And you think I'm too aggressive! /images/graemlins/grin.gif In many situations, I like to just call the raise out of the BB here and then checkraise a ragged flop. If a King or Ace were to come on the turn (or in this case, the wheel card) and you bet, you will only be raised if you're beat. Then you can fold. I would have definitely checkraised the flop and led in your spot though, since he did put in the last bet preflop. Again, if you got raised on the turn you could fold since any ace beats you. The way you played it doesn't make sense...the only hand he folds that you beat is KK and many wouldn't fold that. So if you think he's bluffing, why not just call him down? If he just calls the turn raise, will you check-call a river bet (this would cost 3 bets rather than 2 to check call)? If I had an ace, I'd likely just call the raise to try to extract another bet out of you. Also if he does have KK, he may check behind on the river if you call him on the turn.

Against certain players, you can check fold the turn or bet/fold to a raise. Just some thoughts...

Jeff

[Aaron Harsh]

Hey Jeff

Thanks for the thoughts. I agree that I played this hand very poorly and got lucky when he folded a better hand. I guess we get conditioned because against so many of the Party 15/30 players you find yourself up against hands as bad as ATo or KQo that will get capped in this situation. I don't always go for the preflop reraise in situations like this but as soon as I did, I figured I was probably behind, and then I was in a "what do I do now?" mode. Your suggestion about a call of his raise preflop and then check-raise after the flop if no A or K comes is a better option I think because I certainly would have known where I was at that point. I guess I got myself into the trap and tried a desperation move at the pot on the river and got lucky. The trick seems to be "not getting myself in the trap" in the first place. /images/graemlins/confused.gif Thanks again. Appreciate your thoughts.

[Aaron Harsh]

Hey LA,

Yea that Tuesday game is fairly decent. I just hope the contributors keep showing up. We try everything to keep them laughing and having a good time. I figured I wouldn't tangle with you very early on that evening, especially against your quad 6s. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Couldn't make last night because of the nasty snowy stuff and tonight it's too dang cold to go to Blackbear again. Next week it's Vegas, but hopefully we'll see you there the following Tuesday. It's a requirement though, you have to dig up a couple of loose players and bring them with you. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks for the comments on this hand too. As I mentioned to Jeff, I think I got into quite a hole on this hand with not knowing where I was, but kind of figuring I was behind. Then I tried the desperation move on the river and got very lucky. It would have been a less costly option to find out on the flop bet I think. The run at the river was the only option I had left after I had so much invested.

Good Luck...see ya in a couple of weeks.

[TimM]

Bet and fold on the turn seems stupid when he can check and call the river for the same price. It's not like he has to worry too much about an Ace now, except for a chop if he's ahead. And he has 6 or 7 outs to chop himself if he is behind.