droolie pumping a draw

[droolie]

More madness from the wonkiest site on the bonus whore circuit... Pacific Poker!

No reads... 4-tabling and hardly paying attention to this lousy table...

Pacific Poker 1/2 (8 handed)

Rock Star is in the BB w/ J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif


Pre-Flop:
Everybody limps except the SB who folds Rock Star checks.

Flop: (7.5 SB ) 7-players

3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 10/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Rock star bets, UTG raises, MP calls, Fold, Fold, Fold, Button calls, Rock Star re-raises, UTG caps, MP calls, button calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 4 players

9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Rock star bets, UTG raises, MP calls, Rock Star calls.....

River: (17.25 BB) 3 players

4/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Rock star bets, UTG raises, MP calls, Rock Star re-raises, UTG caps, MP calls, Rock Star calls.

Final Pot: 29.25 BB

[Shillx]

Looks overplayed to me. Pumping paired flops is sketch. The turn bet is madness. It don't looks like he is scared of the frush on the river...

Brad

[bweiser8311962]

[ QUOTE ]
It don't looks like he is scared of the frush on the river...

[/ QUOTE ]

or he has the ace, therefore he's not scared.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks overplayed to me. Pumping paired flops is sketch. The turn bet is madness. It don't looks like he is scared of the frush on the river...

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

On the flop I assumed villian had a 3. Probably A3s. In that case I figured my outs were clean as long as the board didn't double pair or no A or 3 fell.

The turn bet was based on picking up the OESD. When villian kept jamming I started to worry about 103, 1010 or possibly 33.

When the flush hit I had no fears of him having one too. I figured since I was behind only 3 hands that the chance were good he was pumping his flopped trips and nothing more. Take that with the MP overlay I figured jamming was g00t. One of the best parts of ramming flush draws on the flop is that villains rarely suspect when you hit so they don't slow down as quickly.

[Entity]

Vastly overplayed. Capping with a flush draw on a paired board against 3 opponents is only slightly +EV, and then, only +EV if the opponent is a complete nutso LAG. Remember, when an opponent shows this degree of interest, it cuts your total outs down: you are not happy with the /images/graemlins/spade.gif of whatever else he holds in his hand. Given the remote posisbility of TT as well, you have to devalue the strength of your draw by maybe 20%, which would take you from 9 outs to 7.2 outs, and make a flop cap marginally +EV.

On the turn, betting is clearly the worst of the plays. UTG will bet. You have callers trapped, and now have quite a few more outs. With 3 callers and, for the sake of discussion, ~13 outs (again, devalued because of the paired board), you are 2.5:1 to come in, so you need everyone to call for a bet/raise to be profitable. Check. Let UTG bet; if everyone calls, checkraise and allow him to 3-bet. But don't bet here: betting is the worst of the options.

On the river, I'd checkraise and call a 3-bet, and it's really not even close. Get as much of everyone elses money into this pot as possible without risking much of your own.

On this hand I'd say you played preflop, and perhaps the flop, correctly.

Rob

[DeathDonkey]

I would check the flop, as the worst thing that could happen by betting indeed happened.

-DeathDonkey

[droolie]

Completing with any two suited I often find myself in EP with these kinds of draws. I'm always conscious of not wanting the betting to get checked through so I usually bet out and go from there. The flop bet I assumed was standard but the more I think about it I'm not so sure. The paired board is what made me second guess my play on this hand.

I agree that the turn bet was dumb but should I have check/ called or check/raised once MP came along? What if it comes back two bets? Do you lay this down?

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the turn bet was dumb but should I have check/ called or check/raised once MP came along? What if it comes back two bets? Do you lay this down?

[/ QUOTE ]

Must be hard to lay a hand with 13 outs down getting at least 1:7 from the pot. Sure, sometimes you're drawing dead and you'll have to fear a 3-bet from UTG but I'll never fold to a raise.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I would check the flop, as the worst thing that could happen by betting indeed happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no way Hero can know UTG is going raise the flop. Isn't betting out in this pretty big pot standard here? Isn't this a hand where everybody would salut a bet if everybody would just have called instead?

[Entity]

Betting the flop is fine. This isn't a flop that is likely to get bet, especially by an EP player. Once it gets raised, well, you've got to determine what his likely range of raising hands is, if he's likely to cap if you 3-bet, if the others will call two cold again, etc.

The biggest difference about playing drawing hands on paired boards is that you need to be more cautious. I would not lay this hand down to two cold on the turn, because of the massive size of the pot. I would, however, be more reluctant to put in extra bets; this is a situation where you can be sure that pot odds are good enough to play the draw, but you can't be quite sure that your pot equity is high enough to be raising.

Rob

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest difference about playing drawing hands on paired boards is that you need to be more cautious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I really liked your last post. Clearly explains how to reason. And I like the check/raise turn you suggest, if all 3 players come along.

[droolie]

Thanks guys. This hand bugged me all night. I really felt confused due to the paired board. My read was that most players who had trips would play like UTG and the chances of him having the boat were slim.

I often have trouble giving up the lead when I bet aggressively on the flop. In the moment I'm always afraid that backing down will give away my hand and subsequently kill my action if I hit. I also don't check raise enough because I don't trust the other players enough to bet.

I realize it's a leak but I really think I'd bet the river if the same situation arose again. If that river had been checked through I would have been devastated.

I spend so much of my energy trying to put the other players on hands that I think it's effecting my betting strategy in that I go out of my way to try to conceal what is in my hand sometimes. I worry that if I get too tricky by check raising when the flush hits I will kill future action on that round. How do I break this thought process?

FWIW:

Results in white below....

<font color="white">Villian shows down 2d 3d MHIG00t! (Talk about overplaying) MP mucks. I really wonder what he had I'm guessing the case 3 rag but I'll never know (pacific is wonky).

</font>

[Sasnak]

What are you doing on Pacific anyway? Thought there was a boycott on. I played it a few times but it was too slow now I hear the rake system is totally unfair. Still true?

[droolie]

Clearing a signup bonus. I signed up through pokersourse online and will be getting a very nice bonus through them too. If it wasn't for both bonuses I wouldn't have bothered. I hate Pacific. It's like being in internet poker hell. The tables are juicy but it's totally not worth it. Terrible software. Slow action. One table at a time. Hand histories are a joke and clearing the bonus is slower than moosecock. Other than that it's great!

[Sasnak]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand histories are a joke and clearing the bonus is slower than moosecock. Other than that it's great!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm... Don't know anything about 'moosecock', but will certainly take your word on that one. By the way, that wouldn't have anything to do with your tag of 'Droolie', now would it??? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand histories are a joke and clearing the bonus is slower than moosecock. Other than that it's great!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm... Don't know anything about 'moosecock', but will certainly take your word on that one. By the way, that wouldn't have anything to do with your tag of 'Droolie', now would it??? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't know what you're missing dude! LOL!

And since you asked about my tag....
http://www.thedroolies.com