hmmmmmmm

[Sponger15SB]

My table is full of idiots. With the exception of one other guy, the VPIP is 57, 68, 68, and then our Villian in this hand, who is 78/6

Villian will call anything with nothing. He had about $20 up until 2 hands ago, when he reloaded to $50.

$50nl 6-max

Villian is UTG and he goes all in for $50, Everyone folds to me in the SB and I've got JJ.

Hero?

I have not seen him do something this crazy before, nor did I notice him on tilt.

Oh yeah and the BB in this hand is 10/1.5

[K C]

It's a nice situation when you have a maniac on tilt and a good hand. I'd give it to him here.

KC
http://kingcobrapoker.com

[amoeba]

its close but I like a call. I would much rather call with JJ than AK.This is assuming your read is accurate that he is a lag and not a calling station.

if calling station, I like a fold.

[soko]

Fold, the only hand you can hope for him to have is AJ, any other hand you are either a coinflip or WAY behind a higher pocket pair. What's the point of putting 50 dollars on a coinflip?

[amoeba]

what about TT? 99?

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold, the only hand you can hope for him to have is AJ, any other hand you are either a coinflip or WAY behind a higher pocket pair. What's the point of putting 50 dollars on a coinflip?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a question....

If you have 22 and you're in the BB, and it is folded to your opponent in the small blind, and he pushes, and then flips his AKo over before you have a chance to act, you do realize you are suppose to call right?

[soko]

Where in his post did it say the BB has two overcards? I am saying that if it's overcards it's little better than a coinflip, but if he has an overpair you are a huge underdog, in my opinion the times he has overpairs will make calling -EV in the long run. In a 100 dollar pot before the flop your pair vs his overcards has a $56 equity, if you want to fight over a net of 6 dollars and ignore the fact that he may have a monster, well... that's why they call it gambling.

[Tilt]

Lay it down Sponger. Ive seen this act before. They play like maniacs with a short stack thinking youll get a false read then reload and hope to tempt you into overplaying your hand. I strongly suspect that hes got QQ/KK/AA here; possibly AK but you might as well fold to that for one SB anyway.

[okayplayer]

[ QUOTE ]

Villian will call anything with nothing. He had about $20 up until 2 hands ago, when he reloaded to $50.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say fold. This indicates that he likes to play every hand, and he has (probably below) avg raising standards, so since he pushed UTG, he's probably got a premium hand here and expecting to get a call from someone who also has a good hand as they have seen him play every pot. There's a chance he could be doing this with TT/99 or AK (which is a coinflip), but I wouldn't like to be calling for virtually even $.

[warlockjd]

ez call and its not even close

[tdomeski]

I've never played this game. . .but don't you feel like you have an edge against most if not all of these players? Why play a crapshoot with JJ? Pretend he has you beat and fold, or pretend you have him beat and he'd suck out then still fold.

[BigF]

Easy fold. If you call and he flips over AA/KK/QQ you know you just got served. You call him an idiot/maniac but in the end it's him who makes a move on you (your full stack). It's not even funny.

[RYL]

If you're fairly certain he has, at best, two overcards AQ or AK and no over pairs, and you feel like gambling, go right ahead. Sometimes I would call or fold in that situation with that type of opponent. If I feel like gambling I'll gamble, if not I won't. It all depends on my mood. But most of the time (90% of the time), I would prefer to fold because I'd rather outplay the opponent than gamble.

[amoeba]

after reading everything, I want to change my vote to fold.

also didn't realize villain rebought. thought he only had 20.

[poboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold, the only hand you can hope for him to have is AJ, any other hand you are either a coinflip or WAY behind a higher pocket pair. What's the point of putting 50 dollars on a coinflip?

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense at all. Why would anyone push w/ QQ-AA? A person with those hands wants callers. You will almost always be shown a little pair or overcards. You are WAY ahead of the little pairs and have a slight edge against overs. As this is not a tournament there is no reason to pass on any edge. So unless you can be absolutely certain that he has QQ-AA(given the description of the player I'm certain he doesn't) this is an easy call.

[DBowling]

Fold. Its better to take it slowly than to give away $50 and have them leave the table right after.

[amoeba]

precisely for the reason that I know that you know it makes no sense, I push with AA/KK.

but villain's LAG status does put things in to question.

still, I've changed my vote to the fold side.

Call me a flip flopper.

[DBowling]

Flip flopper

[CheckFold]

Call. I'm really shocked that no one has brought up the very distinct possibility of a complete garbage hand. In the numerous cases that I've found myself calling these type of silly open pushes, I have yet to be duped into blowing my stack against AA or KK. I've seen a lot of AT, KQ, 66 mixed in with hands like 9 high. JJ crushes the average open push by Mr. 78% VP$IP. If you've got the bankroll make the call.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Completely agree. Tilt is giving WAY too much credit. I have seen the play like an idiot, lose 60% of my stack, reload and open push with the next two cards that suck to take out my frustration move a lot more than the play like an idiot with a short stack, reload and sucker them move.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
ez call and its not even close

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm shocked so many people say to fold. Easy call here.

I think there is more of a dilemna with AKo and TT.

You know - if he shows you a better hand, you can always suck out. And, more seriously,just move on to the next hand, and note that this open-jam just means a big hand. I think you're losing alot by folding here.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're fairly certain he has, at best, two overcards AQ or AK and no over pairs, and you feel like gambling, go right ahead. Sometimes I would call or fold in that situation with that type of opponent. If I feel like gambling I'll gamble, if not I won't. It all depends on my mood. But most of the time (90% of the time), I would prefer to fold because I'd rather outplay the opponent than gamble.

[/ QUOTE ]

RYL, not to signal you out or anything, but... Poker is gambling. Especially no limit holdem. It's not a game of precise information; it's not a game where the best routinely win; and it's not a game where you can fold small edges and still be a lifetime big winner. If you dont feel like gambling, play bridge, kanasta, or hearts.

That line might sound like a real douchebag line, so I'm sorry about that, but:

You do realize you ARE outplaying your opposition by making this call. This type of villain will make money by having you fold good hands like jacks in this spot. He's outplaying you. Every move you make is gambling, this is no different...

You're not gambling on the outcome, you're gambling he doesn't have a big hand. Based on the player information, it's a smart gamble.

[ QUOTE ]
ut most of the time (90% of the time), I would prefer to fold because I'd rather outplay the opponent than gamble.

[/ QUOTE ]

That line really bothered me. Please reread it again.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

If you put him on AK, AQ, AJ, AA, KK, QQ you are a dog.

[poboy]

Actually you are only a dog to 3 of those hands. AK and AQ you are slightly ahead and your well ahead of AJ.

[Triumph36]

I believe he meant if Hero puts Villain on only having those six hands, it's a -EV call.

I hope so, anyway.

I cast my vote for call.

[poboy]

[ QUOTE ]
precisely for the reason that I know that you know it makes no sense, I push with AA/KK.

but villain's LAG status does put things in to question.

still, I've changed my vote to the fold side.

Call me a flip flopper.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't seem like an optimal way to play the big hands. This will only work against a player like myself(a thinking opponent) and than only when I have a legitimate hand(medium pair or better). Granted every once in awhile this will happen but most of the time you'll just be taking down the blinds.

[Sephus]

why is everyone discounting 77-TT? those are my best guesses. if he has AA-QQ oh well, he will show a smaller pair/A3s etc often enough that calling is +EV.

[Tilt]

What did you do Sponger?

[amoeba]

well think of it this way. if even 1 out of 4 times there is a thinking player who calls you on it, you are making really healthy profits with it. Especially when you run no risk of being sucked out on the other 3 out of 4 times.

[swolfe]

i had someone open push on me yesterday. i called with AA and he had a J9s...unfortunately he hit a 9 on the flop and another on the river. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

with JJ for $50, i'd fold and wait for a bigger edge against the monkeys...i don't like gambling.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
i had someone open push on me yesterday. i called with AA and he had a J9s...unfortunately he hit a 9 on the flop and another on the river. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SpongerSB [ Qc Qs ]
PHILLYALLIN is all-In.
coldhot folds.
>You have options at Table 14286 (6 max) Table!.
SpongerSB calls [$19.27].
payed24 folds.
jmoney712 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, Js, 4c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jc ]
PHILLYALLIN shows [ 9h, Jd ] three of a kind, jacks.
SpongerSB shows [ Qc, Qs ] two pairs, queens and jacks.
PHILLYALLIN wins $38.04 from the main pot with three of a kind, jacks.

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SpongerSB [ Qc Qs ]
mpcooke3 folds.
PHILLYALLIN calls [$1].
coldhot folds.
SpongerSB raises [$5].
Adickt folds.
RutherQ folds.
PHILLYALLIN is all-In.
SpongerSB: alright i've got QQ again
PHILLYALLIN: aa
SpongerSB: if you outdraw me again, i'm gonna shoot myself
SpongerSB calls [$13.14].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, Ac, Ks ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 2s ]
SpongerSB shows [ Qc, Qs ] a pair of queens.
PHILLYALLIN doesn't show [ Td, 7d ] high card ace.
SpongerSB wins $35.93 from the main pot with a pair of queens.

[TheWorstPlayer]

What the HELL is with J9? Look at my post in this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1515589&page=7&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) thread.

[BigF]

"This type of villain will make money by having you fold good hands like jacks in this spot. He's outplaying you."

I don't get it. Before the villain open pushed the pot was tiny. If you fold your Jacks. How's he gonna make any decent amount of money?

If you read the original post again, you should notice that the villian was NOT an open-push maniac. He had been showing a loose image at the table. lost about half of his stack. reloaded. a couple hands later he open pushed. I'd be worried if I was holding JJ.

[JoeC]

What about JT? or 72o?

Depending on the fish, he may just be doing this with ANYTHING.

[warlockjd]

Hero is trying to make the +EV play here. When morons go all in preflop with crap, punish them. Given his description, the +EV play is to call (reraise allin actually if necessary).

As I said earlier, the play is to call (rr all in), and it's not even close.

[ QUOTE ]
Lay it down Sponger. Ive seen this act before. They play like maniacs with a short stack thinking youll get a false read then reload and hope to tempt you into overplaying your hand. I strongly suspect that hes got QQ/KK/AA here; possibly AK but you might as well fold to that for one SB anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never seen this and I play these tables a LOT. I think you are seeing monsters in the closet here. I think hero runs into a hand that dominates his <15% here, Hero's hand dominates 75%, and it is a coinflip (with Hero slightly ahead) ~10%.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. Before the villain open pushed the pot was tiny. If you fold your Jacks. How's he gonna make any decent amount of money?

[/ QUOTE ]

By Hero not calling and relieving villain of his stack, villain is making money.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. Before the villain open pushed the pot was tiny. If you fold your Jacks. How's he gonna make any decent amount of money?

[/ QUOTE ]

By Hero not calling and relieving villain of his stack, villain is making money.

[/ QUOTE ]

TY warlock, perfect explanation

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually you are only a dog to 3 of those hands. AK and AQ you are slightly ahead and your well ahead of AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong. If these are the only possible hands, you are a dog to this range of hands.

[TheWorstPlayer]

But there is no way that is the range of hands.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
But there is no way that is the range of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%. I just don't understand how people are thinking villain (who in my mind is the normal allin idiot given the descritpions) suddenly becomes a badass player with advanced trapping moves just because he bought in short, then rebuys for the full amount.

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Sponger15SB]

Ok well when you guys stop arguing I'd like to give the results.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok well when you guys stop arguing I'd like to give the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, right now I'm so wasted that I can barely stand. So, if you give them tonight, I guess I'll read them again tomorrow, and probably even remember them then.


/hates giving up $500/night to go out on Thursdays, but loves going out on Thursdays

All you nondrinking Anderzones must be loving life

[TheWorstPlayer]

Oh, you can't post the results over all this noise? Post them!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif