Solid player and maniac at same table...how to play?

[KHarris9]

Playing $2/$5 NLHE, six-handed. Player to my immediate right is pretty solid and tight, but can do good things with creative hands if given the chance to get in cheaply (refer to as Player X). To my immediate left is a guy who buys in and re-buys for the maximum $200 with no qualms about putting in all in with bottom pair or a flush draw, seems to have endless funds, tries to bully the whole table (refer to as Player Y). My question is, how do I play the following hand:

Player X in SB, Me in BB, Player Y UTG. Player Y calls, folds to SB who calls. I raise with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif to $15. Both players call.

Flop: T /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Looking good so far. SB checks, I bet $30, Player Y calls, Player X in SB calls.

Turn: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB checks, I bet $30, Player Y folds, SB reraises for my last $50.

I call, albeit reluctantly. Player X turns over 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif for 7-high straight. I'm drawing dead on the river.

Trying to figure out how else I could have played it either pre-flop or on the flop...wanted to bet small enough to keep Player Y around, but drive out Player X with exactly this type of hand. Any suggestions?

[Kaz The Original]

Doesn't seem like the money was deep enough for him to draw to that belly buster. He only got $80 more... Maybe he's not that solid?

[Tilt]

I think that preflop raise is too small. And the flop bet is too small.

Unimproved you are unlikely to stack the maniac without getting more money in early with a pair of kings.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't seem like the money was deep enough for him to draw to that belly buster. He only got $80 more... Maybe he's not that solid?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, change your read there. He calls with a suited one gapper out of position then overpays for the turn. Thats not solid.

[crunchy1]

Seems to me like you're trying to make too much money off the top pocket pairs. Remember, most of the time, you're either going to win a small pot with them, or lose a huge one.. as was the case here. I go with the previous posters... should've raised more pre-flop and on the flop.

If player X is a good player, he's probably noticed the same things about player Y that you have. If that's the case, he's probably going to take some chances with drawing hands/big pot potential when player Y is already in. This is the case for making a bigger raise pre-flop. You aren't concerned about player Y dropping because of the way he's throwing his money around. On the flop you have to be betting at least the pot here anything less is definitely looking good for drawing hands. Player X at this point has odds to call simply based on that round of betting; And that's not even including what is already in the pot or the implied odds he's getting by having the loose player Y in the pot with him. Last, you could've folded this hand after player X reraise on the turn. You said yourself, that he was playing tight, and per my comments about player X also noticing player Y's loose play.. he only waited to reraise until after player Y was out of the hand. IMO player X was trying to suck as much out of player Y as possible, you just happened to get caught in the middle.

[Steve Chase]

I think you played fine and just got unlucky.
The "Solid Player" played bad in this hand.
Maybe he is just lucky, not solid.
Calling 3xBB with 46s out of position is not tight.
It is not solid.

[poboy]

Maybe playing 46s for 3XBB is not tight, but it is certainly solid. The ideal time to play suited connectors is when you know you are up against a big pocket pair and can win a large pot if your hand improves. The only questionable play was his call on the flop, but even that if you take into account implied odds isn't so bad.

As far as the play by the Hero, a larger pf raise may have been all that was needed to take this pot. Also a much bigger flop bet would have been more appropriate, never underbet the pot unless you have an absolute monster. The same exact situation happened to me last night and I made the same errors you did, and got the exact same result.

[Steve Chase]

Solid players follow the odds (pot odds and implied odds ..etc). I really don't think the odds is there for preflop calling. When a suited connected against a large pair, you expect to win with a straight or a flush. The odds to improve to such a hand is less than 2%. With $15 preflop call and $100 stack you can take down as the best case. Your odds is not there.

Suited connectors are good for multi way pots. Not for headsup against a big pair.

I love people to call my big pairs. Yes, I do get sucked out sometimes. But I make more when I am not sucked. When I feel the draw hand made its draw. I fold so implied odds didn't work on me.

[DBowling]

meh, he needs to win $330 to make his flop call profitable. He didnt, so you profit from it in the long run. But i would have bet $45 on the flop, mostly because there's no reason not to.

I also prefer raising to 20-25$ preflop (which ends up making your flop bet larger) but im not sure if this size raise is acceptable at your table.

[scotty34]

I agree. Playing low suited connectors against a large pocket pair heads up is not a good idea at all (or playing into a raised pot that will become heads-up). The chances of improving are so minimal that there is no way that when it does actually improve the small pot you win will not even come close to covering all your losses for the times that it does not. Huge -EV play.

[poboy]

He's already in for 1BB, he has to call 2 more to see the flop. To fold there would be just plain wrong. Also you are not only looking to make a flush or str8, 2 pair or trips is also a nice hand to make with suited connectors. So he's calling 2 bets to possibly win 40(yes I know they probably both won't pay you off but you never know). So yeah I'd say the odds are there. . As for his call on the flop that is a little more questionable, I personally wouldn't have drawn but if he was confident he could take Hero's entire stack than it really isn't that bad of a call. People just don't seem to realize how good suited connectors really are in NL. If you're folding suited connectors for 2 bets preflop you are playing way too weak-tight and giving away way too many pots. I do agree with you that it is better to play them multi-way . However being in a raised pot with 2 opponents of which one is a LAG and the other one has a hand he can't get away from , isn't exactly the worst spot for them . JMO

[soah]

You should raise more preflop.