Was this a stupid call?

[1C5]

Not sure, please advise. I was chip leader, 5 players left, decent hand but good enough to call a 800 raise at this point in the game?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2200)
SB (t1410)
BB (t1730)
UTG (t985)
MP (t1675)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t700</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1200</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls t285 (All-In).

Flop: (t2485) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t2485) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t2485) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2485

[ColdestCall]

It would depend a little on your read of UTG, if you had one. UTG is short stack and about to blind off 30% or so of his stack. Most players will loosen up their raising standards considerably in this situation (although it is a little curious that he raised to 700 instead of pushing), and AQ is a pretty good hand 5 handed. Unless you read UTG for the type of player who has just been waiting for a monster to raise, and finally hit one, I would push. In fact, I would almost always push in this situation - the number of times you will be shown A-J or lower will compensate you for the times you are shown AA, KK, QQ, or AK.

[DblDownTrent]

[ QUOTE ]
It would depend a little on your read of UTG, if you had one. UTG is short stack and about to blind off 30% or so of his stack. Most players will loosen up their raising standards considerably in this situation (although it is a little curious that he raised to 700 instead of pushing), and AQ is a pretty good hand 5 handed. Unless you read UTG for the type of player who has just been waiting for a monster to raise, and finally hit one, I would push. In fact, I would almost always push in this situation - the number of times you will be shown A-J or lower will compensate you for the times you are shown AA, KK, QQ, or AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[emil3000]

I don't think I would ever lay this down.

[1C5]

For the night crowd, your thoughts?

[ericlambi]

If UTG had been playing very tight throughout, I might fold. Leaving those 285 chips when he's in the BB next hand is pretty fishy -- I think he wants a call.

Barring a read like that though, yeah I'd probably call and hope for a coinflip or better.

[adanthar]

I have this little rule: when somebody raises 50% or more of their short stack on the bubble, I look at my hand. If it has an A, K, or Q (or maybe a J, it depends), and the other card is the same as the first, or if one's an A and the other's a K, I call. Otherwise, I fold.

It's served me pretty well so far.

[ericlambi]

In simpler terms, you are only calling with AA KK QQ AK?

[adanthar]

Sometimes I also call jacks and tens, when the mood hits, but I'm not happy about either.

This is exploitable by a really good player but you're not in that situation or that SNG, so don't worry about it. Assuming those types of raises to always be a trap is much closer to right than wrong.

[NegativeEV]

[ QUOTE ]
when somebody raises 50% or more of their short stack on the bubble, I look at my hand. If it has an A, K, or Q (or maybe a J, it depends), and the other card is the same as the first, or if one's an A and the other's a K, I call. Otherwise, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Followed by

[ QUOTE ]
This is exploitable by a really good player but you're not in that situation or that SNG, so don't worry about it. Assuming those types of raises to always be a trap is much closer to right than wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]

If short stack initially pushed rather than made this "trap" raise would you call/reraise (I'm confused by the 50% OR MORE of his stack in the first post). I would think reraising allin over a push from a shortstack here would have an expected overlay.

I guess I'm reading your posts to say that you would fold because SS's raise indicates a monster, but I assume (maybe incorrectly) that you would re-raise a push by SS.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm reading your posts to say that you would fold because SS's raise indicates a monster, but I assume (maybe incorrectly) that you would re-raise a push by SS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[Michael C.]

What SNG is this? When I played 20-30 SNG's, I would sometimes save a little of my money for the next round as this bettor did if I thought the game was very fishy. I don't know if that's EV plus or minus, but a lot of players in those games don't understand pot odds at all, and will fold post-flop to your $285 bet if they don't hit. In the $109 SNG I'd certainly push or fold.

[NegativeEV]

Given Adanthar's thought process (i.e. the thought process of a higher buy-in player) you may be better off making this type of raise at the higher buy ins. It seems it may increase your Fold Equity. It is rare that even a fish will fold to an all in bet of T200 when the pot is T1800, but I don't see much of a downside to making this type of raise preflop (given the relative stack sizes) regardless of buy-in level. It's a screwball play for sure, but betting T700 of your T900 stack certainly has no LESS FE than betting the entire T900.