party 15, confused check-calling with KK

[kanijima]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

waiting to raise the turn. however...

Turn: (10.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls, CO folds.

River: (12.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 14.20 BB

[TStoneMBD]

its fine if you were planning on raising the turn, after the turn comes you should probably just fold against most players i think. if you raise the turn and are 3bet you can muck against certain people.

[random]

[ QUOTE ]
after the turn comes you should probably just fold against most players i think

[/ QUOTE ]I disagree. I think they are way more likely to call two cold PF with pairs (in this case, 88+) than any hand with a jack in it. BB could be betting any of those pairs hoping everyone else has high cards, and also knowing he is less likely to get raised since the board is paired.

[TStoneMBD]

i definitely thought of this, and i know most of the players on this forum would advocate calling down im sure, but you have 5:1 effective odds. do you really think your hand is good here 1:5? i think it depends on the looseness of the BB in the blinds. if he defends far too much then its much more likely he has a 7 or J than a pocket pair.

[OrangeHeat]

[ QUOTE ]
after the turn comes you should probably just fold against most players i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding the turn would be horrible here. BB can be on any number of hands you beat.

In the PP games this should be an easy raise. BB can have many hands your ahead of. Assuming one of the two have a J is seeing monsters under the bed. If your uncomfortable with a threebet calling is ok, but folding would be the last option.

Orange

[TStoneMBD]

yah you guys are right, folding is a gigantic mistake. ignore my ignorant post.

[JasonP530]

Given the fact that he probably won the hand, folding would be an error. I just mean that this type of situation will occur enough of the time for you to win. I look for him to have TT or something in that area. Against an aggro, maybe T8 or T9 he was pushing, but he would probably bluff the river.