A few flop "stabs" [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

zephed56

01-12-2005, 06:39 AM

I'm posting some stabs at flops here. Common situations that I have only recently picked up on.

HAND 1

SB LP-P: average fish, 45% vpip

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (2 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero folds.

----------------------------------------------------------
HAND 2

SB-another 45%vpip LP-P

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB folds.

------------------------------------------------------------
HAND 3

Button 48 vpip mildly LAG

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

------------------------------------------------------------
HAND 4

SB 69% vpip Passive postflop
Button 34% vpip Passive postflop

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (7 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, SB folds.

Hope these were all ok, regardless of results.

zephed56

01-12-2005, 09:51 PM

Well I apologize for the multiple hand post, but I thought they'd be short enough, and they all cover the same topic.
</bump>

marand

01-12-2005, 10:13 PM

Looks OK to me.
I would always bet hand 1 and 4.

In hand 1 you are actually very likely to have the best hand. Hand 4 looks very scary to your opponent, he will fold a great % of the time here.

Hand 2 and 3 would I sometimes bet. (Depending on opponent and how much I have been caught stealing.)

In hand 2 I would bet against someone who likes to check/raise the turn instead of the flop with the J or 9. I don't want to get check/raised on the flop since that would put me in a tricky situation. I don't know how many outs I have.

In hand 3 you are almost sure that he does not have the ace since he did not raise preflop. (You said mildly LAG)

Danenania

01-12-2005, 10:14 PM

They all look extremely standard to me. That you are questioning these probably means you don't take enough stabs at pots.

zephed56

01-13-2005, 12:51 AM

In my first stint at 1/2 6-max in November, I was not making these plays at all really. And I was break even for about 10k hands.

I switched to 1/2 full ring ( a new game for me), and did real well.

This month I took another shot at 6-max, and am doing really well. It's a hot streak, yes, but my game has also improved.
I just posted these random stabs so if there was something wrong, someone could tell me.

I think I could take more stabs in first position though. I probably missed a few pots by checking. But if I act 2nd or last, I almost always try to take it.

JasonP530

01-13-2005, 02:04 AM

All look good. Sometimes, you may want to check behind with K9 on hand 1 when you hit the 9. This prevents you from getting checkraised on a hand where you have a bunch of outs. Your opponent doesnt have so many if youre ahead, and the pot is small. Besides, its a good way to vary your play.

spydog

01-13-2005, 05:34 AM

Hand 1: Raise preflop when SB completes.

Hand 2 and 3: These can be raised preflop as well, especially if you feel your play is respected.

zephed56

01-13-2005, 07:42 PM

I'll try it.

Danenania

01-13-2005, 08:53 PM

Interesting. What percentage of hands would you say you raise on average from the BB after the SB just completes, assuming a typical SB?

lehighguy

01-20-2005, 06:14 AM

Hand 2
I don't know how it works in 1/2, maybe they don't fold, but here I think you made an error. HU Q8 in posistion is great, especially since small blind may be someone that completes with shitty cards. Remeber, if he doesn't hit the flop and you bet he folds and you take a bigger pot. The only spot I wouldn't do this would be with a LAG that you think will checkraise bluff you.

Hand 3:
Based solely on if you think he will fold. If he calls your sunk.

Hand 4:
I'm a little worried about this one. Depends on your read of button. Would he cold call with not good cards (aces and kings). If not then check and let him act. This will also give you an idea of weather or not SB was just slowplaying (maybe not a problem at 1/2 but at higher limits).

I often use this method in multi way pots, let the button bet and if everyone folds you can try to checkraise him and see if he really has the hand is is just betting cause he's the button.

Here is a stab hand of my own:

MP limp, MP limp, hero (button, QJo) raise, SB (TightPassive) calls, BB calls, limpers call.

Flop: K,3,3 rainbow
All check to hero
Hero does ????
I raised

Turn: 10
check to hero
hero???
I worry I'm being slowplayed here by one of them, and I don't know if BB will fold cause he's loose. I can take a free card so the only reason to bet is to try and get them to fold. I'm also risking a turn raise on what could be a free draw. Then again, based on the action what do you think they have?

zephed56

01-20-2005, 08:15 AM

Thanks for resurrecting my old post. Good comments.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2
I don't know how it works in 1/2, maybe they don't fold, but here I think you made an error. HU Q8 in posistion is great, especially since small blind may be someone that completes with shitty cards. Remember, if he doesn't hit the flop and you bet he folds and you take a bigger pot. The only spot I wouldn't do this would be with a LAG that you think will checkraise bluff you.

[/ QUOTE ]
They don't like to fold, and he's definitely not a LAG. I see your point, I think that I could try to raise that weak limp, even if I have what I feel is a weak hand. I think it has other benefits also. I'll give it a try.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 3:
Based solely on if you think he will fold. If he calls your sunk.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would have check/folded turn and river if he called my flop bet. Do you think it is still worth it?

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 4:
I'm a little worried about this one. Depends on your read of button. Would he cold call with not good cards (aces and kings). If not then check and let him act. This will also give you an idea of weather or not SB was just slowplaying (maybe not a problem at 1/2 but at higher limits).

I often use this method in multi way pots, let the button bet and if everyone folds you can try to checkraise him and see if he really has the hand is is just betting cause he's the button.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought this was a clear bet due to my preflop raise. I could legitimately represent the ace, or at least the king. I think I folded out pocket pairs here. If they didn't fold, I would check the turn and play it from there. In addition they will play passively the rest of the hand, making it likely for me to get a free card that I may need.

[ QUOTE ]

Here is a stab hand of my own:

MP limp, MP limp, hero (button, QJo) raise, SB (TightPassive) calls, BB calls, limpers call.

Flop: K,3,3 rainbow
All check to hero
Hero does ????
I raised

Turn: 10
check to hero
hero???
I worry I'm being slowplayed here by one of them, and I don't know if BB will fold cause he's loose. I can take a free card so the only reason to bet is to try and get them to fold. I'm also risking a turn raise on what could be a free draw. Then again, based on the action what do you think they have?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how many you are up against on the turn...

-If it's heads up on the turn I would bet.

-3 handed I may bet depending on my read. If one of 'em goes to showdown too often, I would check behind. If they were both players capable of folding I would bet, and even then only some of the time.

-4 handed or more on the turn I would check behind and take the free card. That's what they get for slowplaying or playing like pansies.

cjx

01-20-2005, 11:23 AM

What constitutes a typical player? Semi loose semi passive? I think I raise the top 40% of hands here. Hand 1 and hand 2 are definite raises against these guys.

cjx

lehighguy

01-20-2005, 01:53 PM

Hand 3, I'm saying its read dependent, at 1/2 it might not be a problem but if you guy is a LAG he may call your bet with nothing or close to nothing. Then when you check the turn he will bet and make you fold (which you should). He may even raise the flop to try an represent the ace and knock you out. However, if your button is passive, and especially if he's tight, then taking a stab makes more and more sense. You have more info then me here as far as that goes.

Read dependent on button. If button is loose calling raises then bet. If button is aggressive then bet cause he'll bet anyway. If button if the passive kind that will let you see a free card if you check to him consider checking and taking it. Then reassessing on the turn. This will also give you an idea if SB was slowplaying cause if he checks twice he's got nothing. Like I said a lot of this is read dependent. That's why I can't play more then two 5/10 6max at a time without losing value.

P.S. In my hand they both called and turn was three way. I checked turn for the free card. I jsut felt I wouldn't get any folds based on my reads.