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private joker

01-11-2005, 10:04 PM

I wanted to raise the river but I decided to bring the two limpers along as overcalls. But the UTG+1 check-raised and it was 3-bet back to me. I had to dump it, but I wasn't happy about folding top 2.

Reads: CO was an idiot. UTG+1 hadn't been around too long, but seemed relatively sane.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 raises, CO 3-bets, Hero folds...

gaming_mouse

01-11-2005, 10:10 PM

I thought CO was an idiot. What kind of an idiot? Are you sure you can lay down top 2 against him? Yes, you are probably beat, but I think this is still close. Definitely not an easy fold. I think calling is defensible.

gm

CPA

01-11-2005, 10:16 PM

Tough decision....

I am really struggling what UTG +1 (a reasonable player) has. Unlikely to have a straight, probably not a set. Was CO smart enough to isolate the "idiot" ?

I am leaning towards calling.

private joker

01-11-2005, 10:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought CO was an idiot. What kind of an idiot? Are you sure you can lay down top 2 against him? Yes, you are probably beat, but I think this is still close. Definitely not an easy fold. I think calling is defensible.

gm

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if I could beat CO (and I thought I could), I figured UTG+1 wouldn't check-raise 2 people without at least a set. Plus, I'm not closing the action -- he could cap it, and I'm paying 3BB on the river vs. two opponents.

chesspain

01-11-2005, 10:29 PM

Raise preflop?

private joker

01-11-2005, 10:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. I did flirt with this, but I figured 2 limpers was where the line was -- would this be a standard raise for most people?

gaming_mouse

01-11-2005, 10:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I figured UTG+1 wouldn't check-raise 2 people without at least a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you have such a specific read versus basically an unknown who seems sane. I don't think raising 2 pair on this river is insane by any means.

[ QUOTE ]
this be a standard raise for most people?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not me. Should it be?

private joker

01-11-2005, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]

How do you have such a specific read versus basically an unknown who seems sane. I don't think raising 2 pair on this river is insane by any means.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just think most people would just bet or raise if bet into with 2 pair. A river check-raise against two people is often at least a set, and when the opponent is unknown/sane, that's what I put them on. I'd have to have a read on them as sort of crazy/overly-tricky to think they'd do this with less than top 2. Plus, even though CO was an idiot there was a very small chance he had me beat, though as I say I didn't think so at the time.

Jeff W

01-12-2005, 01:09 AM

I think calling on the turn and letting BB/UTG+1 draw cheaply is bad poker.

I call the river 3-bet. My turn and river calls showed weakness and may have induced UTG+1 to raise light against the table maniac. CO's 3-bet doesn't mean much.

RyGreen18

01-12-2005, 03:56 AM

only logical thing i can think of is that UTG+1 had 88 and the idiot had 79 and hit his gutshot