Flush draw

[Phil Van Sexton]

Raiser is a somewhat loose, reasonable player.

Preflop and flop play, very questionable by me. And what to do on turn?


30/3 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1090)
SB (t735)
BB (t1535)
UTG (t3025)
MP (t920)
CO (t695)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t30, MP folds, CO folds, Hero calls t30, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t60</font>, UTG calls t30, Hero calls t30, SB folds.

Flop: (t210) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t210) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: t210

[ericlambi]

I don't see any grievous errors here. A6s isn't a terrible hand 6-handed. Obviously, you could fold if you are playing very tight, but really limping on the button seems fine.

You certainly can't fold to the BB's min-raise. So the call there is fine.

A lot of people might make a semibluff at the flop, that's what I would have done, but you wanted to see a free card. fine.

Turn . . . what was the action to you. Impossible to make a decision without that info. I am calling &lt;= Pot bet. Folding &gt; Pot bet.

Not calling any significant bet on the river if I'm unimproved, but you've got 9d and 3 6s to improve, so I like the odds.

I don't see what you did wrong here?

[The Yugoslavian]

PreFlop
I'd probably fold this as your implied odds aren't all that great since there is only one limper so far (in the button with several limpers I'd be more confident a flush would be paid off). The blinds aren't all that big and I'm fine with waiting for a better hand or for other stacks to go to war over few dead chips. The good news is that you have position and the small blind left a few extra dead chips in this now 3-way pot.

Flop
Two checks to you (from a limper and a min-raiser) and you're sitting with the nut flush draw. I'd definitely bet half the pot here. You may win it outright (yay!), you may get played back at (and you can easily bail or call if it's a small bet and you have the odds for your draw), or you may get called (hitting your draw on the turn or very possibly getting a free card on the turn).

Turn
Well, I'd love to know what the two players in front of me do. Betting the flop at least gives you some idea of where you stand but I'd have no idea what my plan is on the turn when checking the flop. If no one bets the turn in front of you, then you definitely want to bet -- again half or maybe even 3/4 the pot. If there is a big bet in front of you I'd fold. If there is a small(ish) to medium bet I'd likely call as I'm getting (or close to) pot odds for my flush and at least *some* of the time my opponent will simply be stabbing at the pot or have a weaker A and check the river.

Yugoslav

[Phil Van Sexton]

Sorry, they both checked to me on the turn.

[syka16]

I think you ought to bet the flop so you can continue if the turn in an A.

[floppy]

Phil,

Does the fact that UTG has you outstacked (almost) 3 to 1 enter into why you seem to think you shouldn't have called in the first place?

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the fact that UTG has you outstacked (almost) 3 to 1 enter into why you seem to think you shouldn't have called in the first place?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't really consider that since he wasn't doing any bullying with his big stack.

I NEVER considered folding here. I strongly considered raising. I have the button with only 1 limper ahead of me. I wasn't afraid of a limp re-raise since I would've just folded immediately. Actually, I'm not sure why I didn't raise. I guess I wanted to see what the flop brought.

The real question is what would you do when it's checked to you on the flop? If you check (like I did), what you do when you hit an Ace on the turn and they check again?

[ReDeYES88]

Min raise from the BB PF to a couple of limpers very well could be a big pair juicing the pot, although if that is the case he made a mistake checking the two flush flop. There's also the chance that UTG was calling along with QJ and now has the straight. Of course a hidden set of Ts or 9s is also possible based on the action.

Call me weak/tight, but I don't believe that I'm re-opening the action on the turn w/TP weak kicker. I think I just check behind and see what the river brings. I get the sense that a turn bet from you will face a reraise.

I take the free card and probably call a smallish bet on the river, depending.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I just check behind and see what the river brings. I get the sense that a turn bet from you will face a reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually bet 150 and they both called. I'm still unsure if this was correct or not, but the result was fine with me.

Since I checked behind on the flop, I felt it was unlikely they would try to check raise the turn for fear that I would simply check behind again.

[ReDeYES88]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think I just check behind and see what the river brings. I get the sense that a turn bet from you will face a reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually bet 150 and they both called. I'm still unsure if this was correct or not, but the result was fine with me.

Since I checked behind on the flop, I felt it was unlikely they would try to check raise the turn for fear that I would simply check behind again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I acknowledge that by betting the turn you have a better understanding of where you're at in the hand. As a side note, it is conceivable that an opponent can check on the flop unimproved, and then check again after improving on the turn with the intention of reraising, especially against a player that likes to bet into cold boards on the turn in late position. Just a thought.

When they both call a sizeable turn bet after checking, what are your thoughts? Under flush draw? Bigger Ace or even two pair? A made (set or straight)hand?

That Ace was a mixed blessing, because I think it potentially helps your opponents in more ways that it helps you and your 6 kicker. It was the one card that makes your hand a whole lot trickier to play.

So what did you do after one of your opponents bet out on the river after your diamond didn't come?

You have me curious about how this one turned out.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
So what did you do after one of your opponents bet out on the river after your diamond didn't come?

You have me curious about how this one turned out.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was 660 in the pot after the turn and I had only 900 left. It would've been unfortunate if it played out as you describe which is why I wish I bet the flop to get hands like A8 to fold. If I missed and he bet 200+, I would've had to let it go.

In the real hand, I made the flush and bet 500. BB folded and the other villian called with A5 (???). MHIG.

[ReDeYES88]

[ QUOTE ]
In the real hand, I made the flush and bet 500. BB folded and the other villian called with A5 (???). MHIG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes .. . a big stack with too many chips, I guess.
Always nice when you can learn a poker lesson AND still win the hand, huh? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[HUSKER'66]

[ QUOTE ]
Call me weak/tight, but I don't believe that I'm re-opening the action on the turn w/TP weak kicker. I think I just check behind and see what the river brings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I will. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Hero has a lot more going for him then just TPWK. He's got the nut flush draw, his three 6's are more than likely clean, and there's the possibilty of two A's still being out. He can take a stab at the pot....he might take it down or get called by a weaker Ace or smaller flush draw.

Husker