A9s, Flop comes 9 high, biggish pot

[belloc]

Been at this table for less than two orbits, but Villain (MP3) seems pretty laggy so far. If I were more confident in my read of him, I might not limp with this hand from here with him to my left, but given that I'm in the hand, how is my play on the rest of the streets?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO calls, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

My check/call here is because a bet or raise will not protect my hand, so I wait until I see whether fourth street will bring something happy for me.

Turn: (9 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB calls, MP1 folds.

Okay, a turn 4 pairs the board, but doesn't fill any straights/flushes, nor does it provide any redraws, nor is it higher than my pair. Seems like a happy card for me.
If MP3 keeps the lead and bets out again, a c/r won't be too effective here with him to my left, so I bet out to see how happy he is with his hand, and to see where others are with theirs.

River: (13 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero...</font>

What's my play here? Bet out again? How confident should I be that my hand is best?

[chief444]

I would bet the flop.

I would bet the river. Worse hands will call and a lot of better hands will be afraid to raise because you've represented trips.

[shant]

There is a way to protect your hand on this flop. In your spot, I would've bet into the pre-flop raiser because he will most likely raise and face the field with 2 bets cold. He will raise AK or AQ here often enough for this play to work, especially since he's LAG.

[belloc]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this a classic case of 'wait for the turn'? If not, why not?

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet the river. Worse hands will call and a lot of better hands will be afraid to raise because you've represented trips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, me too. That's just what I did and why I did it.

[kpux]

I like waiting for the turn better if you had position on him. Since he acts after you, I think the better plan is to bet out the flop, and hope he raises AK or something similar to blow away the field.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't this a classic case of 'wait for the turn'? If not, why not?


[/ QUOTE ]
You can't wait to raise the turn because you're out of position.

I'm all for protecting hands in large pots. But somehow "protecting" hands has become the main focus for many posters and somehow everyone seems to have forgotten about betting for value.

[ecooke]

I like the line you took here.
Waiting on the Flop appears correct as you cannot protect your hand but need to see the Turn card. The River is slightly more vexing - since this pot is still multiway that J was not a good card, compounded by the small number hands likely to call that you can beat.

[MarkL444]

i think this is fine. im folding to a river raise

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a way to protect your hand on this flop. In your spot, I would've bet into the pre-flop raiser because he will most likely raise and face the field with 2 bets cold. He will raise AK or AQ here often enough for this play to work, especially since he's LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

you stole my post

[belloc]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't wait to raise the turn because you're out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see; makes sense.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm all for protecting hands in large pots. But somehow "protecting" hands has become the main focus for many posters and somehow everyone seems to have forgotten about betting for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, in fact, this touches on a question I asked here a coupla days ago about a nut flush draw I had on the flop. Guy to my right bets out, I raise. I asked whether my raise there was for value or to protect my hand, or both? (If you care, the hand details and other particulars are there. Just search for posts from me in the last few days to find it; I don't have that many. /images/graemlins/wink.gif )

[belloc]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a way to protect your hand on this flop. In your spot, I would've bet into the pre-flop raiser because he will most likely raise and face the field with 2 bets cold. He will raise AK or AQ here often enough for this play to work, especially since he's LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, makes perfect sense. Though, doesn't it depend on a much better read on him than I had? I had maybe 15 hands, and he had played about 8 or 9 of them, raising maybe 6 of those preflop. I've gotta be fairly sure of his raising behind me to think that this will protect, no?

[ecooke]

I feel pretty meh about this. Assuming the play works, the pot odds will only be reduced to 8:1 with strong implied odds (courtesy of the LAG). Even a gutshot may be able to correctly stick around.
That said, I still think waiting until the Turn is a good line.