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View Full Version : Jackpot Jay's Chat Transcript for 1/11


Kevmath
01-11-2005, 03:40 PM
frank, dc: In you column today, you talk about how low the earnings are for the average poker player. Does that include a strictly tournament player, who only plays tournaments and can win very large quantities of money at one time? Can those players be more successful?

Jay Lovinger: (1:50 PM ET ) No, that excludes tournament players b/c what happens is a handful of them will get very lucky and win a huge amount while the vast majority will actually lose money. Those figures are estimates that exclude tourney players. Just ring game players on a regular basis.


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Charlie: Coatesville Pa: I asked this question to Phil Helmuth on his chat and he shamelessly plugged one of his books so I'll ask you. What are the typical tells you will see from less experienced hold em players.

Jay Lovinger: (1:53 PM ET ) Well, the most basic kind of tell is where somebody acts weak when they are strong and vice-versa. Poker players lie all the time, if they are not good, their instinctive response is to act the opposite. If they are feigning disinterest, they probably have a really strong hand. If they are authoratative and glaring, that usually means they are bluffing. That's the most basic -- it's like watching bad actors in a movie. The kind that try to make you think they are really in love, but you know they are just acting. It's the same difference. Actually, even Phil Helmuth does that. He will try to bulldoze a player by acting, he tries to intimidate them even when he is sitting on nothing.


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Eric (Boston): I am familiar with the estimate that 10% of all poker players are long term winners who are able to sustain themselves, but my question is why do average or slightly above average players, such as you and I, who win regularly, but not enough to live on, continue to play?

Jay Lovinger: (1:55 PM ET ) Ha. Well, as i said in the column, most players really don't play b/c they expect to win. It's not that they are not trying to win, but they are really just playing for excitement, entertainment, distraction. I mean, you root for a baseball team, they don't win all the time but it excites you. You can live with that. It's a fun distraction, like a lot of other things. Also, a lot of other players play to prove to themselves that God really loves them ... and conversely a lot of people play in order to prove to themselves that they really are not loved, as evidenced by how much they lose.


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Scott Wayne, Pa: Jay What do you suggest for someone who wants to behave like a raging degenerate gambler every day but isn't supported by the safety net of ESPN or a book deal? P.S. Love the column.

Jay Lovinger: (1:55 PM ET ) Don't do it, Scott!

Jay Lovinger: (1:56 PM ET ) .... Unless you have a huge trust fund.


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Joe (Philly): Have you spoken with Fossilman since his 'incident' in Vegas last week?

Jay Lovinger: (1:56 PM ET ) I email him just to see if he was OK. He said he was.


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Thad Denver, CO: Jay, I am looking at starting to go up to my local casino's and playing at some tables. Any advice for a guy who has never played beyond his weekly game with friends?

Jay Lovinger: (1:58 PM ET ) Thad, well, when you first go, you'll feel like you really don't know what's going on. YOu may feel lost in all these little rituals and moves that so many people will seem to be doing naturally. Don't get caught up. It's like riding a bike. Go assuming that you will not win much money when you first start out. Play low stakes and conservatively until you are comfortable and no longer worrying about looking like a foolish rookie. It only takes a time or two. It's amazing how fast you pick it up. Don't be intimidated, just give yourself a few visits to feel it out and get the hang of things so that you don't feel like an amateur. You'll be fine.


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Mike (Philly, PA): Jay, I know you're a higher limit player, but for a low-limit ($2-$4) online player...what can you expect to lose online before you can consistently start winning and move up to higher limits? Assuming that you're playing correctly, and mechanically on some level (high hands, suited connectors, etc...) How much time and money should be invested?

Jay Lovinger: (2:02 PM ET ) Well, if you actually play correctly, you'll win right away most likely unless you hit a terrible streak of bad luck. At $2-4, you might lose $500 or $600 to start off, but if you are really playing correctly and conservatively as you suggest, I would think you will win right away. There are a lot of bad poker players online.


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Glen, Seattle WA: Do you still play in any home games? What is your favorite fruity (i.e. wildcard) game to play when your ability to see cards is struggling with your ability to consume liquor?

Jay Lovinger: (2:05 PM ET ) I haven't really played in a home game in 15 years since I was in Washington. I guess it's closer to 20 years. We used to play a game called Circle Jerkle where you put out 11 cards in a circle and it was played hi-lo and you turned over your cards one at a time and there was a round of betting after each was turned over. YOu could use any three contiguous cards in the circle to match with your four hold hards to make your best high hand or low hand. So, there was a huge amount of betting and since there are so many cards to choose from, everybody always had great hands and stayed in to the bitter end. And of course, you can't beat a game called Circle Jerkle!


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Mike (Phoenix, AZ): Ignoring how many dollars you've won or lost, how would you rate your poker skills and what criteria would you use to support your rating? I ask because last year I played in about 40 small tournaments; cashed in 7 of them; made 3 final tables and even won one; and I never once felt like skill won out, I always felt like I got lucky to get where I was. While my finishes seem to dictate some ability I can't shake the feeling that winning tournaments is all about luck of the draw.

Jay Lovinger: (2:07 PM ET ) I disagree. There is certainly luck involved, but if you are a better player, you absolutely have a better chance. In the long run, luck will even out and the player with more skill will win.

Jay Lovinger: (2:08 PM ET ) Be careful when you rate yourself. It's like an AAA Driving Survey. 90% of people rate themselves as above average drivers. Poker players are like that.

Jay Lovinger: (2:09 PM ET ) That said, I'm at the very least a very above average player. I'm certainly in the top 10% of poker players ... not that I have any proof of that, but I've played a lot and I've read a lot.


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JB (Shreveport, LA): Jay, whats a good poker book which explains Omaha, Stud, and Lowball and not just Hold em?

Jay Lovinger: (2:11 PM ET ) The best book is Super System by Doyle Brunson. Although, I'm not sure it explains Omaha, I know it does hit six different games.


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Steve RI: Hi Jay. Whats your advice on playin low pockets in early and late positon. I have trouble playing these certain hands.

Jay Lovinger: (2:14 PM ET ) Well, my philosophy is, certainly, in limit poker, I like to get in and see the flop as cheaply as possible. If you don't flop a set, then fold. In other words, play it like a speculative drawing hand.


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Scott Collegeville, Pa: Jay In terms of cash games in casinos, do you see more of an opportunity to succeed at either limit or no-limit games? Or is their no advantage to either, only different strategies employed?

Jay Lovinger: (2:16 PM ET ) It really depends on your temperment. I'm a much better no-limit player but it's not b/c there is more or less skill involved, it just happens to fit my temperment better. There are some great players like Howard Lederer who is probably a better limit player even though he's good at both. There are other players like PHil Ivy who are great at both but better at no-limit. Neither game is intrinsically better for money. It depends on your skills.


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George(Austin, TX): Jay, It seems to me that the biggest payouts for a "professional" in your position would be in tournaments. Why are you always in ring games? With the thousands of dollars you lost in ringgames, you can make up 5- 100 plus times your losses in one tourney wit a $20-$200 entry fee. Why not play more tourneys?

Jay Lovinger: (2:19 PM ET ) Well, the difference btwn ring and tourney games is like the difference btwn flipping coins wth somebody for money and playing the lottery. Ring games you'll win less but far more often. In tournaments, you can be a great player and play for years and never win one. In order to go for a long time without winning you need a rather large bank roll b/c the variance is so great. If you can afford years of play, go for it. But most people -- including me -- are not in that situation. If you play in most of the major tourmanments, it can cost you btwn $300,000 - 500,000 a year just in entry fees! Forget travel fees too. If you don't have a backer or a huge bank roll, you're in trouble.


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Sam (Los Angeles): Jay, in your opinion, who on the pro tour has the BEST poker face?

Jay Lovinger: (2:21 PM ET ) There are a few people. Phil Ivy, Barry Greenstein and Dewey Tomko are among the best.


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Matt (ATL): Fist time I've sat in on a chat with Jackpot.,....you ever sit down at a table with Doyle, what was that like?

Jay Lovinger: (2:21 PM ET ) No. I've played with some really great players, but never Doyle. Probably the best I've ever played with was Howard Lederer.

Jay Lovinger: (2:22 PM ET ) Howard was very freindly and serious and he didn't high-hat anybody. It was in a 1,000 dollar shoot-out in Vegas. He lost about half his chips fairly early on in a hand that was un-spectacular. He got eliminated at 5th place or so at our table of 10 people.


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Dave (Pawtucket, RI): Super System 2 (due out in Febuary) will most likely cover Omaha unlike the first book. Do you ever play any game aside from Hold'em?

Jay Lovinger: (2:23 PM ET ) Pretty much Hold 'em all the time. I play the occasional 7-card stud tournament. I've played Omaha hi-low or 7-stud hi-lo. But basically I stick to hold 'em.


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JeMar (Pittsburgh,PA ): Given the fact there are no Casino's in my state where do you suggest I should travel to play: Foxwoods, Atlantic City, or Canada? None of those are from me but none are exactly close either. Thanks and keep up the good work.

Jay Lovinger: (2:24 PM ET ) I haven't played in Atlantic City. I would say probably the place to play would be the one that was closest and least expensive to stay at. Get a deal on a room. Keep your expenses low, that means more to play with!

Jay Lovinger: (2:25 PM ET ) I bet the best players would be found in Atlantic City of those three options. Competitively, I'd choose one of the other two. There are also some casinos in upstate New York near Syracuse. It's called Turning Stone. That may be closer to Pitt than Canada.


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Gerry (Boston): How do you play against inferior players? I find myself playing over-aggressively, only to get called down by marginal hands when I presume they would have folded. How do you play against people who half the time don't even understand what their holding let alone what you're holding?

Jay Lovinger: (2:27 PM ET ) Well, if you read my column, you will know that I've been having problems recently just for that reason. Play only strong starting hands. That's what I've learned. FOld quickly if the flop doesn't hit you and don't try to bluff bad players. They will call you all the time. In other words, just play good hands, you may get out draw a bit, but you'll do OK.


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JB (Shreveport, LA): How do the pros feel about the explosion of poker and the influx of amateur players now playing?

Jay Lovinger: (2:29 PM ET ) I think generally speaking most are quite happy about it. For one thing, the no. of tourneys and the amount of prize money has increased immensely. Since the purse is based on how many people enter, the more people that play, the more there is to be one. Taht's a good thing. And, in terms of ring games, the influx of ametures, just means that there is a lot more bad players for the good players to win money from. I'm sure that vitually all the top-flight pros are very please that there is more easy money and more moeny out there generally to be won.


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Rob (NY): Here's a question from a relatively new player: Would you play pocket 8's, 9's, or 10's?

Jay Lovinger: (2:31 PM ET ) The answer to almost every poker question like that is "it depends." They are all good hands, but it depends on what happens as it goes around. Play all of them most of the time, they are all probably in the top 20 hands. If the betting is such that indicates people are strong hands, you'll want to get out. If you play a pair of nines and there isn't much betting before the flop and the flop comes Ace, King, Queen and people start raising -- obviously, get out!


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Sam (Los Angeles): Which poker player is recognized by the pros as the best player in the world?

Jay Lovinger: (2:33 PM ET ) There are several. The guy that I've heard most people talking about as the best in the world lately is Phil Ivey. But he is somewhat inexperienced and hasn't had any huge streak or much adversity to deal with. But, that said, if you were to poll players, he'd probably be mentioned most.

Jay Lovinger: (2:33 PM ET ) Poker isn't like basketball, there will never be a Michael Jordan.


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Chris (Richmond, VA): Where can I find the article you wrote today that people are talking about?

The ShowGirl: (2:36 PM ET ) Here you go

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lovinger/050111



Jay Lovinger: (2:36 PM ET ) Thanks everybody! That's all the time we have for today! We'll do this again next week!

shadow29
01-11-2005, 04:59 PM
Jay Lovinger: (2:11 PM ET ) The best book is Super System by Doyle Brunson.

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nolanfan34
01-11-2005, 05:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Jay Lovinger: (2:11 PM ET ) The best book is Super System by Doyle Brunson.

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[/ QUOTE ]

Not surprising. He mentioned the Sklansky/Malmuth books early on in his columns, but dismissed them as generally being too hard to read and math based.

Subby
01-12-2005, 10:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Not surprising. He mentioned the Sklansky/Malmuth books early on in his columns, but dismissed them as generally being too hard to read and math based.

[/ QUOTE ]
Heh - and 2+2ers were worried that trying to show him the path would be the end of on-line poker as we know it. /images/graemlins/wink.gif