Raise for free card or string people along on flush draw? [Archive]

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P Carr

01-11-2005, 01:05 PM

Button has VPIP over 60; SB is also ridiculously loose; BB is super-tight; MP1 is new; MP2 has good PFR (8) and PF aggression (2.5), but VPIP is poor (40+).

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Seems like a raise might have been good here, to drive out BB, get dead money from SB, and get button.

Flop: (5 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

 The fish could quite possibly have called two cold, so I figured that would be worth a shot, plus clearing up my overcards. Good? 

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

 No equity with only two people, yes? 

River: (4.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls.

 Seems easy enough.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

_bustedflush_

01-11-2005, 01:08 PM

I would have raised pf, but played the same after that.

mmbt0ne

01-11-2005, 01:15 PM

I definitely raise preflop. Other than that, nice hand. You want to raise the flop not only for a possible free turn card, but to clear up your K's and T's. You have two overcards, the 2nd nut flush draw, and the button. I raise this flop all day long.

IsaacW

01-11-2005, 01:15 PM

I'm not sure that raising to clean up your overcard outs applies here. You have KT, and if you spike a K or T you will likely have the best hand unless someone holds exactly a pair with a K or T kicker. You have a strong draw here, I would call and hope to bring more money into this still-small pot.

droolie

01-11-2005, 01:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Button has VPIP over 60; SB is also ridiculously loose; BB is super-tight; MP1 is new; MP2 has good PFR (8) and PF aggression (2.5), but VPIP is poor (40+).

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Seems like a raise might have been good here, to drive out BB, get dead money from SB, and get button.

Flop: (5 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

 The fish could quite possibly have called two cold, so I figured that would be worth a shot, plus clearing up my overcards. Good? 

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

 No equity with only two people, yes? 

River: (4.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls.

 Seems easy enough.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise pf.

I just call the flop. The reason why is that the pot is very small and you probably don't want to confront everybody with 2 cold. With a little luck someone will raise after you and you can then reraise. Raising is not wrong as it clears up your overcards and might build a bigger pot if you get some CC'ers.

TwoShedsJackson

01-11-2005, 01:32 PM

I call this flop to keep people in, it's a small pot so I won't be too worried if I lose it by spiking a King and being reverse-dominated or outkicked. I keep them in while drawing.

If I call and we have 5 players on the turn, I would consider raising the turn to try and knock people out there and clean up overcards - what do people think of this line?

IsaacW

01-11-2005, 01:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I call and we have 5 players on the turn, I would consider raising the turn to try and knock people out there and clean up overcards - what do people think of this line?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you are not worried about dirty overcards on the flop, why would you be worried about dirty overcards on the turn? I think raising a turn blank would be -EV unless you have reasonable fold equity, which you probably don't. And, if you raise the turn and hit your flush on the river, you will likely make less money when you are check/called.