99 Post-Flop Play

[AdamL]

BB & UTG+1 are both LP-Pish.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.66 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (9.66 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 9.66 BB

[wuarhg]

Looks good, I would have raised pre-flop but since you called I would have played it the same way.

[AdamL]

Under what circumstances will you limp preflop? I guess UTG is one spot for that. I'll always raise if I think I might grab the blinds or get it headsup with a bad player, but otherwise call. I might be playing it too weak preflop.

[Hoi Polloi]

If no one has opened to my right I'd raise 99 in most games. You've got a strong hand--get the money in.

I'd bet the river here too.

[pstripling]

I am by no means an expert, but I posted a similar question a couple of days ago... lets see if I learned anything

You have 2 limpers already in, I think raising is wreckless here as they are probably not going to fold for one more bet. If only the BB and limpers call your raise you have a problem with 99 as it does not play well against 3-4 players. If someone behind you wakes up with a big pair you are looking at 3-4 bets preflop with 2 outs and probably shorthanded. Open raise from MP2 or later. If someone is already in limp to encourage multiway action which is what you want.

[Chuckles1248]

[ QUOTE ]
You have 2 limpers already in, I think raising is wreckless here as they are probably not going to fold for one more bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what you want...your hand figures to win more than it's fair share of times against the average limping hand. If they had overcards, they most likely would have raised, although that's not guaranteed, but it is most likely that you are ahead.


[ QUOTE ]
If someone behind you wakes up with a big pair you are looking at 3-4 bets preflop with 2 outs and probably shorthanded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless of the situation, if someone wakes up with a big pair, you're going to be an underdog. By this reasoning, you shouldn't raise KK preflop in MP, because someone behind you could wake up with AA, then you're drawing to 2 outs and paying extra bets preflop.

If you can push out the people behind you, then you have position on a bunch of limpers, and you can more accurately take control of the hand.

[chesspain]

In the dictionary, next to the phrase "river value bet," isn't there a picture of this hand?

[pstripling]

Ok, maybe I am completely lost. The way I see it there are a lot of overcards to 99. JT, QJ, KT, KJ, Axs are all played hands at this level. Yet not standard raising hands like AK, AQ, KQ. Any one of those hands is a "coin flip" situation, start giving multiple opponents a piece of them and your edge goes to around 1-2%. You will win some of these pots through aggressive play, but you will lose extra bets often enough to make this -EV as your SMALL edge is preflop. You need to escape someone else having an overpair, and survive the flop, and maybe further depending.

[Chuckles1248]

As far as escaping an overpair, that shouldn't be too hard, as overpair will let you know preflop or on the flop.

Axs is not a "coin flip" situation against 99, they are drawing to 3 outs. There are hands like JT, QJ, KT, etc. that are, but overall against the range of possible limping hands, you are either a coinflip or way ahead, which is the time to get the money in.

I could be the one who is completely lost, though. Maybe someone who's better can explain what the right plan is here?

[AdamL]

[ QUOTE ]
In the dictionary, next to the phrase "river value bet," isn't there a picture of this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I was too afraid of the passively played weak jack. I guess a river check here is only appropriate against pretty tight players.

[chris_a]

I'd raise preflop here. I think the EV is higher because:

- 9's are a strong holding and you should have a pre-flop equity edge.
- You don't want to let hands like JTo, QTo, KTo limp in because the more of these that are in, the less likely that your 9's are going to hold up.
- Also, you have position on your two opponents, and the big blind if he completes when you raise.

However, I think it's close between raising and limping in this game because calling encourages a multiway pot where your implied odds from having a set are the most important. Raising makes the game plan slightly different. Now you have a chance of winning against two players without improving in addition to the set chances.

Of course the limpers aren't going to fold to your raise, but that's not the purpose of raising.