Check down situation on the bubble

[bball904]

$55 Party sng... Did I play this right pre-flop with the big blind posting all-in, or is this a situation you want to isolate with a pair of 8's? Sorry I need to figure out how to use the converter.


300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 8575149) - Mon Jan 10 22:26:28 EST 2005
Table Table 11548 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: Button (3140)
Seat 3: SB (3045)
Seat 6: BB (250)
Seat 10: Hero (3565)
SB posts small blind (150)
BB posts big blind (250)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 8c, 8d ]
Hero calls (300)
Button calls (300)
SB calls (150)
Creating Main Pot with $1000 with BB
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5d, Js, 9d ]
SB checks.
Hero checks.
Button bets (400)
SB folds.
Hero folds.

[TheWorks]

If your #1 priority was to be ITM then yes, I guess by letting everyone in gives you abetter shot at being 3 players.

But if you rather go for the first I would throw in a raise, I would make it 1200 to go , you have a good hand to knock out BB and pick up the blinds. Remember that most players to play tight on bubble, espiecaly in a situtation like this, and they will fold most hands, if you happened to get raised its an easy fold

[rachelwxm]

I really don't get it here.
pocket 8s are really good hand short handed, besides, bb is all in with anytwo. Why let everyone limp in cheap? Treat it as if it's a 3 handed game with dead money bb. You need to raise enough to discourage other people from entering into pot so that you can take bb out.

Against most reasonable player, I think raise 3bb is enough to announce that you are ready to take bb out. If you think one of them is extremely tricky to try a resteal in case bb knock you out, I'd push.

On this flop, I would not call all my chips here for sure. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Irieguy]

Rachel is on the right track here. This is a rare case when a min-raise deserves some serious consideration.

I've typed too much already tonight, but I'm sure somebody else can take this idea and run.

Irieguy

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]

I would make it 1200 to go

[/ QUOTE ]

Oooh, you definitely don't want to do this.

Irieguy

[se2schul]

Everyone wants the BB eliminated. By limping, you're basically saying that you need help to take him out. By min raising, you are announcing to the other 2 that you can likely take him out. In this situation, a min raise is the exact excuse that the others will need to fold (unless they have a monster like QQ-AA). If they DO have a monster, they will call you no matter what you bet.

I'm thinking min raise your 8's. Fold to a reraise, as it announces that he will knock out the BB. If you get called, play 88 for set value, and play cautiously. The goal in this hand isn't to make loads of chips, but rather to glide ITM.

Is my thinking correct?

ss

[bball904]

Thanks for the thoughts, I like the min raise. I think min raise or push is the right play after giving it a lot of thought. I think my typical thinking has been way too much check it down and I need to adjust. For what it's worth, the button bluffed us out with Ax for the T150 side pot and bb won the hand with a 9 and won the tourney. I can't believe people that will bluff in this situation, but it happens enough that I need to make it a stronger consideration.

[rachelwxm]

[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth, the button bluffed us out with Ax for the T150 side pot and bb won the hand with a 9 and won the tourney.

[/ QUOTE ]
THis is usually a good move by big stack to make sure the bubble extends imo even though this does piss people off sometimes. That's why you have to raise PF. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[se2schul]

That's a good point. If the big stack likes to bully, then he wants the bubble extended so that he can keep stealing pots. I guess it depends on how aggressive/passive the other stacks have been.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I would make it 1200 to go

[/ QUOTE ]

Oooh, you definitely don't want to do this.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Irie, is pushing PF completely idiotic here? You have the other 2 stacks covered so they should be folding all but premium hands with BB blinding out. Also, If BB happens to take out Hero's 8s you're not really that upset as BB is on your right allowing you to continue stealing the other stacks blinds whenever BB chooses not to play a hand.

Honestly, I think I tend to get way too aggro on the bubble with the big stack and a shorty I'm using to steal from other mid stacks. I generally push WAY worse than 88 here so please let me know if doing so is horrible.

Thanks.

EDIT: or maybe I should just plug this into the ICM calculator, realize that pushing here is moronic, and stop wasting everyone's bandwidth. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bball904]

Actually, I was the big stack, but by a neglible margin. We all had 3,000 some chips. I understand the bluff bet from a bullying big stack, but it made no sense here whatsoever.

[rachelwxm]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I was the big stack, but by a neglible margin. We all had 3,000 some chips. I understand the bluff bet from a bullying big stack, but it made no sense here whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]
well, it is usually piss people off but from EV perspective, he is quite smart. Some simple ICM calculation shows the EV
if everyone folds and he wins HU against all in bb 34.5
if bb win 30.7
if he check check and you take the pot 31.8

So he does not need 50% chance win against random bb for this to be +EV move for him. He has ace high no pair on flop against unknown bb hand, I think it's close.

While eliminating player is important at bubble, so is winning chips. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I don't like the move but I think it's not stupid.