76o Bottom Two Pair. Flop is All Hearts. Everyone likes their hand.

[Sponger15SB]

$50NL 6-max. $1 BB

Hero ($110.65)
UTG ($31.2)
MP ($58.65)
Button ($43.1)
SB ($59.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG folds, MP calls $1, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($4) 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)

SB Checks, Hero bet $5, MP calls $5, Button Raises to $10, SB calls $10,

Hero ???????

[DBowling]

call??? hope for a 6 on the turn???

[DoubleDown]

i think i'd fold here. i would be afraid that there are many MANY hands that could be out there that are already beating me... any 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif's ... 8/10, 5/8, 9/7, 9/6. despite the fact that I'd be obviously be drawing, i wouldn't be totally confident that I'd be drawing to the nuts as 99 has me dominated.

it'd be tuff to lay down in the heat of battle, but maybe i'd say something like 'dont go broke in an unraised pot' to myself

...curious to see what others think

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
call??? hope for a 6 on the turn???

[/ QUOTE ]

if your 6 and 7 are clean outs, you have implied odds to boat up. lets just hope 99 isnt out

[Biff M.]

Fold. One of those small edges that's not worth taking IMHO.

Then again, this is 6 handed so I have no experience and might not be that comfortable with folding.

Ok, I misread the whole thing. I thought you were the one who checked it, and then got it raised and called back to you. Here I would call and hope for sevens or sixes, otherwise go for a cheap showdown. If the turn is a blank, however, I might bet into the raiser. Blank being undercard, not more connecting cards, not a heart /images/graemlins/smile.gif If he still raises I muck without hesitation. If you just check it to him and he bets, as he should, you really have no idea if he's still on a draw or not. SB's actions are also important of course, but he's obviously on a draw.

The more I think about it, I still find this to be a small edge though.

[DoubleDown]

bump

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: ($4) 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)

[/ QUOTE ]

SB Checks (maybe I'll get some free cards for my open ended flush draw?), Hero bet $5, MP calls $5 (I'll be damned if Sponger is going to knock me off another straight draw), Button Raises to $10 (damnit, I have top pair, and the ace of hearts) , SB calls $10 (well I have to call now theres too much money in the pot)...

Hero reraises to $25? Hows that line? If one player pushes you can fold, if they all push you probably have a nice +EV pot.

Reckless, maybe, but based on all of the hands Ive seen you post I suspect there may be a few players on tilt in this pile. But then again you might find a better hand to ruin their night with.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]

Hero reraises to $25? Hows that line? If one player pushes you can fold, if they all push you probably have a nice +EV pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly what I did. Reraised to $25, MP folded, Mr. Raise to $10 goes all in for another $17 on top of that, Small blind then calls that and has about $16 left, so I figure now there is just wayyyy to much money in the pot and I need to see both cards, so I push and the SB calls, creating one gigantic pot.

The turn was a beatiful 7, and it didn't matter than the SB had A /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, and also that the SB had flopped a flush.

Given what cards they had, my hand was a pretty big dog, but oh well, I think that reraising on the flop to knock out some players and protect my hand was really the only way to play it.

[ QUOTE ]

But then again you might find a better hand to ruin their night with.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was good enough to bust 2 players, and then the very next hand my KK held up against TT on a flop of all undercards and I busted another guy. Then the next hand after that....well my AQo missed the flop and the other guy massively overbet the pot by pushing after I checked to him.

[Biff M.]

Well it wasn't good enough at the time you pushed. The fact that you outdrew them when you were about 20-80 doesn't really change much, apart from that you feel good instead of bad.

Like Tilt said, you'll find better hands than bottom two to ruin people's night with.

[Sponger15SB]

Sorry I forgot the /images/graemlins/tongue.gif at the end of the "it was good enough to bust two players"

I was kidding.

[TheWorstPlayer]

The problem with the 25 is that it is pot committing you. Just call and hope to fill up on the turn.

[Sponger15SB]

So without thinking about how you know the results, judging from the flop action I'm behind and am drawing to a full house?

[TheWorstPlayer]

You bet the pot. You've got one guy calling the initial pot bet, one guy raising, and one guy check/calling twice the initial pot. There is a straight and a flush possible on the board. You are behind. Just pray you aren't drawing dead behind 999.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
So without thinking about how you know the results, judging from the flop action I'm behind and am drawing to a full house?

[/ QUOTE ]

We're talking about 6-max here in a Sponger game. Two pair is going to be ahead here as often as not. You cant just fold up and assume someone has a flush or straight without testing the waters.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I didnt fully consider OP's probable table image, but I still find it unlikely that none of the other three have top two, set, straight or flush. Don't you think it is too much to assume that all three of them have some combination of . . . what? overcards? OESD? flush draw? top pair? overpair? It is possible, but I think it is less than 50%.

[ericlambi]

This just seems terrible to me. You are drawing nearly dead to 99 or 77. These players could have made flushes, straights, and you can be almost certain one is on the nut flush draw. I can't believe based on this action that you have the best hand (which you didn't), and you only have 4 very dirty outs to improve. This is a clear fold to me after being raised. I guess calling might be okay too, but I don't think it is +EV relative to folding.

Congratulations on being lucky.

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: ($4) 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)

SB Checks, Hero bet $5, MP calls $5, Button Raises to $10, SB calls $10,

Hero ???????

[/ QUOTE ]

folds

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
This just seems terrible to me. You are drawing nearly dead to 99 or 77. These players could have made flushes, straights, and you can be almost certain one is on the nut flush draw. I can't believe based on this action that you have the best hand (which you didn't), and you only have 4 very dirty outs to improve. This is a clear fold to me after being raised. I guess calling might be okay too, but I don't think it is +EV relative to folding.

Congratulations on being lucky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe in some games, but were talking about 6-max monkey bashing fests with Sponger the "tilting table captain" in the game. In 6 max assuming trips with no PFR is really a weak-tight assumption. Id be more worried about flushes and higher two pair than that. Dont just ditch it - test it in a manner that you can still get away from it if need be.

[ericlambi]

I don't play 6-max with any frequency, but I'm still not convinced. I really don't see how ruling out 99 or 77 is possible just because it's 6-max. I doubt I'm raising from EP/MP with 77. Not to mention if 97 is out, which you said is much more likely, you are drawing to 2 outs. No odds for that. You're only getting odds to draw at a fullhouse in this situation is you have a set. Like I said, I can understand an intelligent argument for calling -- this raising was a bad play. If you disagree, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Raising here is asking to get rid of worse hands and getting called by made flushes and straights, which you will only draw out on 17.1% of the time (if you see both cards).

[BobboFitos]

Interesting hand here, Sponge.

I dont like the flop overbet... I understand your thinking: "Even though I have a pretty good hand, I'm more than happy to take it down, as almost every card in the deck is a scare card." Only problem is it bloats the pot to an uncomfortable spot on the turn if one of these hit, and being OOP, if you bet and are called, or check and they bet, it's tough to play.

Given your flop play so far, I think reraising is bad, as better hands call you, (although you might fold some draws which are close to you) and I dislike folding, as at the minimum, you have odds to boat up. So I think calling the min raise is fine. (Assuming MP calls, it's 5 to win 44...)

The real question is how do you play the turn if you don't improve. I think if any scare card DOES hit, check/folding (or hoping it gets checked around to boat the river..) is ok.

So really, a /images/graemlins/heart.gif, T, 9, 8, 5 are all bad. An ace might be bad, too, for someone sticking in there with like A9.

If the board comes an offsuit K, Q, J, 4, 3, 2, I'm still not sure how I like best to proceed. Checkfolding still has merit but I think it may be weak. Leading out might just build the pot to the point you're playing for your stack, and an unraised 4 person pot where everyone likes their hand, I just cant give everyone top pair and say it's all good. Tough spot.

Edit: Saw results, nice.
Checkfolding the turn is weak on a blank, but on a scare card I think it's the move. Stop&Going on a blank I think is better, folding to a raise, (unless the blank boated you) because I think they can only raise w/ a flush. Like 1/2 pot or something.

[BobboFitos]

Gah! When I looked at the hand I noticed Sponge's stack was x2, but everyone else is ~50. So that makes leading the turn and folding to a raise horrible.

I still think just calling the flop is better, as someone did point out reraising PCs you, and I dont really think bottom two is best now. (Even 6handed...)

On a blanked turn though I think your main concern is getting the most money in vs weaker hands, as against better you're probably going to double them anyways. I dont know if the best way to do this is lead out, or check/raise them all in.

Problem is the guy who minraised the turn could be on a draw, (either straight, flush, or both) or have like top pair and freeze when an overcard falls. So you lose value vs draws.

I think leading out for 1/2 pot on a blank is fine, but instead of folding to a raise, you call...