Good players whining about bad players

I wish to tell a story of why table criticism of bad play and bad players is soooo very bad...


Over 10 years ago I played my first poker hand ever...in Las Vegas, Nevada. The game was holdem, and it looked fast and furious in that daring $1-4 limit!


I was playing many hands...but always leery of my facial expression not to give anything away. I called a raise with 10-3 of clubs, and made trip threes to beat the lady who had KK in a very large pot.


As the woman showed her KK...I legitimately asked if that was a good had to start with. Many laughed at me, and the woman got on me so bad, that the next hand I folded!! I was so embarrassed at my lack of knowledge, I told everyone I needed to leave... and took my WINNINGS...and vowed not to return until I read some books and know what I am doing!!!


Shortly after, I studied much, and became a professional player. I moved up in limit as my bankroll grew, and have made a living playing since that time.


I play the higher stakes online, and play live as high as $1000-2000, although usually about $200-$400, and I know of no one who wishes to have me in their game.


I have recently seen a lot of criticism of bad play and bad players. In particular by PLAYBOY, ERIK123, and FED-EX...to name a few. I believe these are all winning players, and there consistant criticism has made bad players leave, as well as educate them to their terrible errors.


Games MUST be fun for these players if they are to continue in the games. Although I have heard these players say they do not care...I am unsure who these people will play when they run the losers away, and educate all others about bad play.

N1!!

wow...big potsies...

It's the oldest rule in the book.


Why try to make someone at the table you're playing as good as you or better... Why bother - unless you're trying to get laid by her or something.


People just get pissed cause they get snapped off - so they lay into the guy...but big friggen deal...ya know? You'll get paid back...phooey on them. Never help a bad player play better...but egotistical assholes never learn.


Good post

I watched 3 nights ago PLAYBOY playing 20/40 4 handed and it looked like he was winning and his play was very good until he lost 1 hand. The guy he lost to on the river was a very loose player and PLAYBOY really laided into him calling him names. A few hands later the player left and the table broke. I believe if PLAYBOY kept his mouth shut he would of cleaned out the whole table, but his big ego cost him maybe another 1000 + +.


And I noticed almost every table plays at he has a fan club mostly railbirds who dont even play real money there and they cheer him on all the time and incourage him to abuse players.


maybe one day he'll mature.

Well said pokerstuff

For the most part, I believe that these people that attempt to belittle others who snap off premium hands (or temporary holdings) with an inferior holding should not be classified as "good players".


Why would anybody do this? There is nothing more I want than to have a player that is willing to take T3 s00ted up against my KK sitting at my table. This is an ideal situation. The last thing in the world I would want to do is even *risk* running them off.


In situations where people make nasty suckouts against me online, I typically say nothing at all. (Sometimes I may say "nh", but absolutely never anything negative.) And in live play, I typically nod my head and maybe grimace a little in an attempt to convince the player that "I should have seen that coming" or say in an earnest voice, "good hand".


I am a firm beliver that a huge part of my success in poker has been taking advantage of players who are inferior (or are willing to play with holdings that give them a significant disadvantage).


And believe me, even though I won't say it aloud, nothing pisses me off more than somebody running off the worst player at the table by ridiculing them. Find a different way to vent. You cannot win every hand. A realization that the money is coming back (a normally very quickly) should be enough to keep your emotions from getting involved.


Just my spin,


NHG

just to add...


When playing 2 days ago 20-40 online, FED-EX ran off a player. I mentioned to Fed-Ex that he should not be mean and criticize other players, as it hurts the game and makes others leave (how else do you tell him in chat).


After Fed-Ex said he did not care...2 other meduim players who had been getting better, chimed to say how they like the chat as Fed-Ex explains the hands exactly...telling what is right and wrong, and BOTH the other players at the table told him how helpful he is being to them.


I believe both players are being truthful...as they have become much better through this last 2 weeks (they were REALLY poor players previously). So it is not just even the player who played so bad!


I would seriously consider writing support when you see this happen...ask them to warn them, and hopefully take away their chat. NOTHING could be worse for the house...or for the players.

I see you guys always bashing BOBCARDS PLAYBOY and FED-EX. But the fact is these 3 players win more then anybody else on the site. I dont want to take PLAYBOY's side but i see alot of cheaps shoots towards him/her. Same with BOBCARDS they always say hes so lucky but the truth is they are very good players and they know how to attract the fish. PLAYBOY attracts more fish then anyone.

So how is he/she losing players.


jessy

As I said Jessy; they are winning players...as for more than anyone else, that is in question. But why do you seem to defend them for running off and criticizing bad players at the table?

Damn jessy..........


I bash Playboy all the time; he is an egotistical, sore loser (for any given hand) and would like to educate all those out there who are not as good as he is. I have NO PROBLEM egging on the winning players (I just don't discuss play at the table), and no doubt those three are.


I started playing poker in earnest 14 months ago, and I don't often play live. I have matured as a player, and can honestly say that I am a million trillion times better than I was then (and now I only think I am a good player, no rockstar yet). I'd like to thank especially, LastChance, who first started criticizing my play, the crew at the 20/40 5 handed game at Planet poker, and, oh...gosh, the well wishers like LisaK and Rusty-Nail, who really were trying to help me.


See...what players KEEP forgetting about bad players, is that many of us have BRAINS inside, just lack of experience w/ cards, etc. Poor players just MAY have the potential to become great players with just a little help. You hear a message 4 or 5 times from different players, you start to believe what they say is true. Then it doesn't take 4 times to listen to better players once you figure out how much you suck. Lessons on the table help the players that listen LOSE there ego, which does not help the game at all. This is especially true when two winning players like Erik and Playboy start to have a debate on the play of a certain hand in the chat box. They weren't even ripping on a fish...they were talking about each other. Soooooo bad! What better way to learn than from two pros?


And jessy? How do you know who are the winningest players at paradise, I'd like to know? Do you have an in?

Have you ever noticed when these players play that (especially fed-ex) that there are always a few lurkers adding in bashing comments as well.Another perspective you should consider is that they insult and ridicule players to further get them on tilt.They want players to concentrate more on the chat box than the game at hand.Some players will quit but alot will get pissed off and continue to play(really trying to stick it to these assholes) and make even more mistakes than normal.I don't think its as dumb as people think -especially heads up.

The "revenge" factor is pretty strong among some people. When you've just been taken for 100 BB, you really want to "get it back" from the jerk who's getting "lucky" and who thinks he's the king of the world.


- Tony

I think someone said it best when they said "bad players have brains". Let's face it- if someone is playing poker on the internet chances are they are fairly intelligent. Eventually, they will get better, no matter what other players say to them.

When I would raise with 47 suited and then snap off a guy's AA, do you think I cared what he said about my play? Heck no- I felt like an expert. The winner of the pot, if he is truly a bad player, won't "learn" anything from ridicule. He will continue to play in the manner that is netting him chips at the time. Once these plays start costing money, then he or she will get better- no chat-box ridicule is going to make someone suddenly absorb poker theory.


Ridiculing players that are not total fish, and I do not mean personal attacks, but rather a little jab at a bad play here and there, is part of the psychology of poker. This verbal warfare is useless and counter-productive against truly bad players, but against players that have some knowledge of the game and are determined to "prove to you" that the bad beat they just gave you was really an example of their poker prowess, and not just a lucky break, it is effective and can even lead to profitable situations. Against players who are more or less your equal, pulling out some additional tactics is not only acceptable it is part of the game. These tactics aren't always verbal... What about when a player shows a bluff after he has just pushed someone off of a big pot? Is this play unethical? Is it "mean"? Certainly this affects me just as much if not more than anything any player could ever say to me. Obviously, berating very weak players is bad, at least temporarily, for the good ones' bankrolls- but in the long run there will always be new players coming to the games, and these so-called bad players are eventually going to go broke or learn how to play regardless of what an angry player might say during the course of a game.

I belive that playboy is the master of the mind game on paradise. He knows how to break people apart emotionaly. I see him do it all the time. I dont think he's trying to bash players but just to trying to push them on tilt and if u watch him play people go crazy with him 1 on 1 and at the end of the night he usually finishes on top.


billy

Just to add a few more things to this. Last night PLAYBOY vs Luis Lane. Playboy was down 400 to luis lane in 10 min. Luis lane goes thanks for the game playboy, Playboy responds buy saying "ya quit whille your ahead fish"..


Of course luis lane gets upset and starting playing again within about 15 min playboy won his 400 back and cleanded out luis lane.


This is a perfect example how playboy gets in people heads. And i'm sure the second luis lane gets more funds hes gonna go right back at playboy for revenge. I see it happen all the time.


Keep up the good work Playboy...


billy

A perfect example as to why he plays on-line and not in a B&M casino or a home game. In real life the consequences of abusive behavior often outweigh the monetary benefits.

I'm confused... if one of the players in a head-up match DOESN'T quit when ahead, do they have to play till the house eats both bankrolls with the rake?

A player can leave anytime they want. There are no time limits.

Do you think its right what playboy does online to attract players?

It's not illegal, that's for sure. Poker's not a nice game, unfortunately! You take advantage of players worse than you to take their money. If you can make a decent player "worse" by insulting them, you make more money. I wouldn't belittle players though personally. I like a nice atmosphere. /images/smile.gif


- Tony